An interesting viewpoint......

jcmaloney
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Oxgirl wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:06 pm
Having full knowledge of exactly what went on I can assure you the Jed Walker article is so full of untruths and inaccuracies it is laughable. Never has Jed tried to get the other side of the story - hardly good journalism!

The NCMD needs modernising and it was being done. One vote per member was being planned (some regions unsurprisingly don’t like that) and still is. But what does that do? Yes it undermines the supreme power of a few individuals in regions. The same individuals who objected to any suggestion of new ideas and made it incredibly difficult for anyone to come in and help do something positive. Ask yourself what has the NCMD done in the last 20 years to promote responsible detecting? It did more in the last 12 months than it did in the previous 20 - that tells you something.

I could go into details but unlike some of the regional reps who have taken to throwing personal insults I’m not because it isn’t worth it.

Let the NCMD concentrate on the Treasure Act amendments instead of this pathetic point scoring. The vast majority of members don’t care less about the internal politics but do care about the hobby. Time to draw a line and just move on.
Tips hat :clapping: :clapping:

However that would need to be done in a cast iron way utilising the constitution. :thumbsup:
I`m Marmite me. Opinionated, obstinate and somewhat tenacious.
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Saffron
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I openly admit I needed to go out so only read some of that item.

But I did notice this bit -
"Wendy Howard also stated she had not been in favour of the spending £25000 for the series of five cartoons used on YouTube." (The highlighting of the £25,000 was in the original item).

I am sure that this was discussed by the executive before the decision to spend the money was made and if Wendy Howard felt differently to the majority that is unfortunate. I have been on very many committees and projects over the years where I have not always agreed with the final decisions made, but you always go with the majority.

That £25K works out at only £5K per video, and considering how well and professionally produced they were that does not seem excessive to me.

Back in 1980 when some of the reps for the regions started £25K was a massive amount of money, now it is not.
Back then nobody would have considered videos to get the message across (even if they had only a VERY small number of people (<2%?) would have been able to watch them!).
Back then half a dozen sheets of A4 might have been sent to get the message across ... now they would be thrown in the bin without being looked at.
Now if the video was poor quality and not professionally made, users will not even give it 30 seconds before turning it off. These videos catch the viewers attention and get the point across.

When I gained the one permission, the (admitedly very friendly) landowner said "Yes detecting that field is fine, are there any rules or anything" (I did like the way he said "Yes" first :thumbsup: ). I had already said about the NCMD and the Code of Conduct and the insurance, but I said I would send him some more details (as I always do when gaining a new permission, I am "old school" so if something is said verbally that is good enough (so none of the written agreements lark for detecting here), but that e-mail is a "it was agreed" just in case! ) and I sent him the link to the one video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRyRInuQA9s.

I saw him a few days latter, straight away he started talking about the video and how good it was - he thought the characters were great (and even named some locals that both fitted the image and actions! - proving the kind of thought that the producer had put into creating them) and said how much he had learnt about metal detecting from it.

That video is 2 minutes 1 second long. The landowner watched all of it. He learnt a lot about RESPONSIBLE detecting.
Maybe somebody could have written some thing that would have taken less time for him to read. BUT straight away that video "hooked" him, the written sheets would never have been read if if requiring less time.

If they have that impact on somebody that never has, and never will, gone detecting then you can see how effective they are for getting the message across to the modern detectorist.

By location I am in the Western Region, and have been in a traditional "bricks and mortar" club for about 10 years, but I posted a question on our FB page a bit back asking if anybody had ever heard from the Western Region reps; a good friend of mine has been detecting for even longer and is in another traditional "bricks and mortar" club like wise his club never has any contact with Western Region.

I understand the logic of how and why the regions were set up "back in the day". But they are badly outdated now. Not only am I a member of my local traditional "bricks and mortar" club, and long may they thrive (we hope to restart meetings next month, so will be good to meet up ... and they are in a pub :thumbsup: ), but I am also a member of 2 small online groups, one much further down in the South West and one in North Wales. But they are a change of scene, nice friendly groups, and a lot of finds are "localised" .... as an example I love crotal bells but I have never found one locally but I have found some (including a ringer :D ) with the group in the South West. I have done one off events in various parts of the country, including a fantastic event right up near Dundee in Scotland (where some of my finds were "common" up there but unique to me so meant a lot). So I rightly consider myself a responsible detectorist, but sadly the NCMD Western Region does NOT represent me. The hobby has moved on and to survive all the challenges the NCMD needs to move forward as well - yes this will upset a lot of the "old guard" but times change, if they change with it then their knowledge and experience can be used to everybodies good .... but if they refuse to change like the dinosaurs then new people with new ideas will lead the hobby forward.

Evan
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Saffron
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Oxgirl wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:06 pm

<cut>
Ask yourself what has the NCMD done in the last 20 years to promote responsible detecting? It did more in the last 12 months than it did in the previous 20 - that tells you something.
<cut>
I have been metal detecting for about 10 years.

Over that time I have acquired four metal detectors, 9 coils (I think the maths is correct on that), and please do not ask how many "extras" ...... this is just a statement of fact ... it must NOT be used in an arguement with the other half as "look what Saffron has got see I need that new ..."

How many of those came with anything to promote responsible detecting? NONE, NIL, ZERO, ZILCH.

Well that was the case until yesterday when a new pinpointer arrived (yes I NEEDED another - honestly the old one had eventually died), in with it was a NCMD leaflet "Detecting guidance and advice". It covered such things as "The Basic rules of detecting", "What is treasure" and what to do if you find it .... chance would be a good thing!!! ...... "Recording finds on PAS to help increase knowledge", "How to record finds".

OK I have been detecting about 10 years so not a lot new there for me, BUT that came with a pinpointer due to the changes in the NCMD in the last year or so. I got my original detectors as a "newbie" knowing nothing, what guidance did I get from the NCMD or retailers about responsible detecting then - none. Even when I upgraded the last time to the Nox I had nothing, nor when I purchased the new coils even more recently. Its only the new "powers that be" that have started to work with retailers to get the message out there that you can not just buy a detector and start digging holes everywhere (which a lot of people thought when they paid out their hard earnt cash previously) and made an active move to promote responsible detecting to newbies (and others that might have previously taken no notice!).

I know its "only a little leaflet", and it costs only a few pence per copy to produce. But if it gets the message across to only a percentage of newbies what a difference that could make - less chance of them detecting where they should not, better chance of them following the code of conduct, much less chance of them causing bad PR issues and as a result no ammunition for the "ban detecting" brigade.

Evan
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I think it is good now that the NCMD are moving towards the responsible recording of finds with PAS. I could never get my head around why they haven't encouraged it in the past and I am sure there is a rambling reason given in the publications section which I think I read at the time. Part of the bunker mentality I think.
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Kenleyboy
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Some very good observations made by all and I particularly like saffrons point regarding the leaflet . When I got back into the hobby about 5 years ago I have to admit I had never heard of the NCMD . Going back to my youth when I first got into the hobby it just seemed a harmless pursuit with little or no restrictions , common land and parks didnt appear to be out of bounds , perhaps they were but in my youthful ignorance I was not aware . Fast forward now and I still see newcomers coming into the hobby believing that they can go anywhere without being challenged or believing they are breaking the law .Three of my friends have just started metal detecting with one believing he could go anywhere and was a little taken aback when it was pointed out to him that there are many restrictions involved now .
NCMD insurance is a must , it protects you , the landowner and the hobby .With the recent shake up in the NCMD , the leaflet is a good move and this type of thing should now become common practice .
On my part , I paid my insurance content in the knowledge that I was covered but I had no idea of the internal politics going on behind closed doors but a change is a good thing , shake it up and move forward with the times . It is a growing and popular hobby which needs protecting and any body which supports and protects the hobby will get my vote . :thumbsup:
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figgis
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Like many, I became a member of the NCMD immediately I took up the hobby. It made sense and, insurance aside, I was suppporting our representative body. Then, in Another Place, a thread was started regarding the number of members the NCMD had and the people who knew flatly refused to say. That made NO sense and pointed towards a long-suspected hidebound protectionist stance I had no time for and so I didn't renew my membership and haven't since.

Very good people have recently been forced out of the NCMD board and until such time as I see it actually moving forward and doing what it should rather than posturing to pander to the fossils entrenched on the top table then I shall continue to withhold my support.

Prove yourselves to me.
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Oxgirl
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Completely agree John :thumbsup: over the last 12 months they’ve now published minutes, accounts and numbers of members but that took massive effort to change entrenched views. I believe and hope the new website will increase transparency further, allowing meetings to be watched live, etc. And allowing members to debate and vote on important issues.

I hope that doesn’t get watered down and I am assured it won’t :Star:
chill…karma will fix it

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Blackadder43
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I too used to be a member of the NCMD, but it soon became apparent that it was essentially an old boys club, entrenched in their ancient ways.
Their secrecy was unprecedented
Until recently
It started to look like a proper group supporting and protecting the hobby, being more transparent with information and more vocal and generous with their information
Putting things in place to help the hobby move forward, gaining trust again

Alas it appears the "old guard" as some see themselves have dug their heels in yet again to change, spread a lot of rumours that arent true, or are conservative with the truth, and subsequently forced good people from their positions
The old guard needs to wake up or be voted out and replaced with people willing to talk and move the group forward, not stay in the 1980's

All i can say the the NCMD is you will reap what you sow
I havent renewed my membership in the last almost 3 years and will continue not too until i see change to catch up with the times and moving forward from the behind the scenes bullying and nastiness that has recently been exposed and caused people to step down
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I am sure that those who have seen my posts on here and on previous forums have seen my questioning and frustration on the running of the NCMD. I could never understand how it worked and although I believe in what it stands for, I could never see how it was accessible to its members.

To me it has always been a secret society that is run by those who know what is best for the hobby but not me. A couple of posts on the other forum cemented that view and it is only in the last couple of years and indeed the last 6 months that I have a better understanding and renewed respect.

A member for 8 years and this year was was first time I have seen meeting minutes and accounts. Things were moving in the right direction. I have often asked why they would never release membership numbers or engage with the media. I guess the Warsaw wally doesn't help but times have changed.

I really hope this bump in the road doesn't derail the progress made so far.
Dave
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