Lead tokens - identification requests

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Oxgirl
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We are delighted to welcome David from www.leadtokens.org.uk to our forum. David is known as leadtokendavid on here and his knowledge of lead tokens is legendary!

So if you want an ID of a lead token then drop your request below. Please add info on size (visual scale or written dimensions), the county where you found it and, if possible, it’s weight to help David. Before you start though you might want to check out the great library of finds by looking at the index on David’s website. Obviously many tokens were made locally or are completely unique so don’t expect David to be a miracle worker and be able to answer every enquiry.

So get your tokens out and show them here. Hopefully we’ll all soon be a whiz at identifying tokens ourselves soon as we learn from David and he can sit back admiring the skills of his prodigies :D Well we can hope 8-)

Thank you for joining us David, personally I can’t wait to get know more how to date tokens :thumbsup:

EDIT: here’s a direct link to David’s size guide to dating lead tokens (Sept 2008 issue 42 of Leaden Tokens Telegraph)
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Steve_JT
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Here’s one to start the ball rolling, I think this is a token?

Has the letter S D, on the obverse and Flower six petal design on the reverse, has a raised dot both sides of the token
Weighs 3.63g
Size 18.82 x 2.58
Found Wiltshire Dorset Border Close to town of Shaftesbury

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Regards steve
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Griff
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Hi, my wife found this yesterday in the north east uk.
Any info would be greatly appreciated, a rough date would be brilliant.

Thanks in advance
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leadtokendavid
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There is a good illustrated guide for dating by size in LTT_42 {Sept 2008}, covering mainly the period up to 1672: see www.leadtokens.org.uk and home in on the relevant edition. After that, approx {there are no absolute rules}:
If it is 17th cent copper token size but cruder it is late 17th cent or early 18th.
If it is regal copper farthing size it is post-1672 up to late.
If it is regal copper halfpenny size it is mid-18th cent or later.
If it is cartwheel penny size it is 1787 or later.

There is also a whole series of illustrated articles on "English lead tokens, chronological development"; look that up in the LTT index {hyperlink at top of homepage} and you will find them.
leadtokendavid
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Steve_JT wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:09 am Here’s one to start the ball rolling, I think this is a token?

Has the letter S D, on the obverse and Flower six petal design on the reverse, has a raised dot both sides of the token
Weighs 3.63g
Size 18.82 x 2.58
Found Wiltshire Dorset Border Close to town of Shaftesbury

Image

Regards steve
Yes, token, possibly a farm picker's token or commercial. Size is right for late 17th cent or early 18th but with the exergue favour the latter. See article on exergual development in LTT_76, pages 3-4. {www.leadtokens.org.uk}
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Griff wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:18 am Hi, my wife found this yesterday in the north east uk.
Any info would be greatly appreciated, a rough date would be brilliant.

Thanks in advance
C19D6452-014B-4E50-A477-8FFE9835AD20.jpeg
From my post below on sizing, overlapping with yours, you will see that this is quite late. How far north-east? the NE part of Co.Durham, near the coast, is notable for some late issuing in Q2/19th cent, a little after most other parts had given up on lead. A few references to this in LTT_72,92,136 {www.leadtokens.org.uk}. If from that area your looks like it might be one of these, even if not of the same design as the examples I have had confirmed so far.
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leadtokendavid wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:15 am From my post below on sizing, overlapping with yours, you will see that this is quite late. How far north-east? the NE part of Co.Durham, near the coast, is notable for some late issuing in Q2/19th cent, a little after most other parts had given up on lead. A few references to this in LTT_72,92,136 {www.leadtokens.org.uk}. If from that area your looks like it might be one of these, even if not of the same design as the examples I have had confirmed so far.
Hi David, thanks for your speedy reply, it was in fact found in County Durham.
I’ll have a look at the ones you have linked.

Thanks again
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Oxgirl
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Hi David I found these three tokens, recorded on PAS, where they were given a 1250-1850 time span. Found together on a site of a deserted medieval village on the Oxfordshire/ Bucks border. I just wondered if you had any better idea on likely date?

They are 15.7mm to 16.9mm wide and between 3.3 and 3.8 mm thick, cast with a flat back and weigh between 3.6 and 4.2g. In the photos they look quite yellow but in real life they are a much darker grey than this. I know their classification, etc I’m just interested in your thoughts on age if it’s possible to narrow in down a bit.
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Oxgirl
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Also interested in your thoughts on this one. It was found recently in Oxfordshire between Bicester and Oxford. I’m assuming it’s another 17th or 18th century farmers token? It’s around 20mm in diameter. We concluded it looked like a goat :D Thank you :thumbsup:
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Steve_JT
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David

Please use the image for you LTT if you wish, it is my image, taken by me and give you permission to use it

Regards Steve
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One I found a little while ago in Warwickshire.
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Oxgirl wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:28 pm Hi David I found these three tokens, recorded on PAS, where they were given a 1250-1850 time span. Found together on a site of a deserted medieval village on the Oxfordshire/ Bucks border. I just wondered if you had any better idea on likely date?

They are 15.7mm to 16.9mm wide and between 3.3 and 3.8 mm thick, cast with a flat back and weigh between 3.6 and 4.2g. In the photos they look quite yellow but in real life they are a much darker grey than this. I know their classification, etc I’m just interested in your thoughts on age if it’s possible to narrow in down a bit.

46AF611B-414E-4BA3-BE13-D025629AEDA7.jpeg9B486643-4CB9-4CA8-9C94-BE98D1B8CA34.jpeg649160AD-92F9-4A32-83F3-30A296DF5DBB.jpeg
Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:45 am

Nice consistency of size, they feel as if they go together. Think that the design on the last two is meant to be an armorial shield. They feel fairly early, maybe BNJ53 type G or H. {see my LTT newsletter at www.leadtokens.org.uk}. BNJ53 is online, see the LTT bibliography {hyperlink on homepage} for details.

You will see from my guide on dating by size in LTT_42 {Sept 2008} that average sizes go down from 18mm in 1250 to a minimum 11mm c.1500 and then back up again. Your pieces are on the earlier downward part of the curve c.1350-1430. If they were on the later upward part they would be mid-17th cent, and stylistically they look much earlier than that.
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leadtokendavid wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:26 pm Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:45 am

Nice consistency of size, they feel as if they go together. Think that the design on the last two is meant to be an armorial shield. They feel fairly early, maybe BNJ53 type G or H. {see my LTT newsletter at www.leadtokens.org.uk}. BNJ53 is online, see the LTT bibliography {hyperlink on homepage} for details.

You will see from my guide on dating by size in LTT_42 {Sept 2008} that average sizes go down from 18mm in 1250 to a minimum 11mm c.1500 and then back up again. Your pieces are on the earlier downward part of the curve c.1350-1430. If they were on the later upward part they would be mid-17th cent, and stylistically they look much earlier than that.
Exciting :D I thought they were earlier than all the others I’ve found and those dates fit beautifully with that site. You’ve made my day, thank you :thumbsup:
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Oxgirl wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:34 pm Also interested in your thoughts on this one. It was found recently in Oxfordshire between Bicester and Oxford. I’m assuming it’s another 17th or 18th century farmers token? It’s around 20mm in diameter. We concluded it looked like a goat :D Thank you :thumbsup:

C77E9DAC-F73F-40BB-BCC4-C0C64D5C0763.jpegB32DF5E5-D444-4AAC-952F-FEC5D75956E0.jpeg
Yes, early-mid 18th cent. Not easy to identify some of these animals; not sure myself, but you are as likely to be as right about the would-begoat as anyone. On my LTT website {www.leadtokens.org.uk}, in LTT_124, there are a couple of examples of similarly aged pieces, one from Wilts and the other from around the Newbury area of Berks, which have talbots {a specific type of dog} with the same sort of jaunty stance. That is probably coincidence, but the likeness is worth thinking about.

The exergual line helps date, see article at the back of LTT_76.

Use: Probably agricultural, but possibly a pub token from a pub called the goat.
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shaggybfc wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:49 pm One I found a little while ago in Warwickshire.
shaggybfc wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:49 pm One I found a little while ago in Warwickshire.
That's big, cartwheel penny size. It has got to be about the same date, i.e. 1787-1820.

Item under the initials looks like a candlestick. Reverse possibly a shield but I'm not convinced. More like a grill/griddle for cooking on. I'm just guessing but candlestick and griddle says cooking and socialising, so maybe a pub token.
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