Lead tokens - identification requests

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shaggybfc
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leadtokendavid wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:47 pm That's big, cartwheel penny size. It has got to be about the same date, i.e. 1787-1820.

Item under the initials looks like a candlestick. Reverse possibly a shield but I'm not convinced. More like a grill/griddle for cooking on. I'm just guessing but candlestick and griddle says cooking and socialising, so maybe a pub token.
Thanks :thumbdown:
It's about 16/17mm, the scale is in mm, I'd cropped a bit too much out of the scale.
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leadtokendavid
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Sorry, read it as inches. 16-17mm is mid-17th cent, maybe late 17th cent. Yes, guess it could be somewhere around that, although without anything said about size I would probably have guessed early 18th cent from the style. The design didn't feel post-1787 to be honest. The other griddle I have seen is mid-17th cent.
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alloverover
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Had this tiny little thing recently, only the size of a round farthing, group M by looking at you site David ?
I couldn't use the email address of the site for some reason. So here are some images , to be honest I've never come across such a small token 👍
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Bors
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Quote Cath .... " Also interested in your thoughts on this one. It was found recently in Oxfordshire between Bicester and Oxford. I’m assuming it’s another 17th or 18th century farmers token? It’s around 20mm in diameter. We concluded it looked like a goat.


This to me Caths picture of her token looks like a version of "the lamb of God ", which is often depicted as a lamb ,with a halo above its head.Which in the picture to me ,shows a halo above the animals head .
I`ve no idea of its ID ,but that`s what struck me when I first saw it .(just a point of interest) :D
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Oxgirl
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alloverover wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:52 pm Had this tiny little thing recently, only the size of a round farthing, group M by looking at you site David ?
I couldn't use the email address of the site for some reason. So here are some images , to be honest I've never come across such a small token 👍
Check out p3 for an almost exact match - and only 11-12mm so looks the right size too! Yes it is an M series and 1425-1490.

Very, very jealous of that one - tiny, detailed and great condition. Superb find!
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Oxgirl
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Bors wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:10 am Quote Cath .... " Also interested in your thoughts on this one. It was found recently in Oxfordshire between Bicester and Oxford. I’m assuming it’s another 17th or 18th century farmers token? It’s around 20mm in diameter. We concluded it looked like a goat.


This to me Caths picture of her token looks like a version of "the lamb of God ", which is often depicted as a lamb ,with a halo above its head.Which in the picture to me ,shows a halo above the animals head .
I`ve no idea of its ID ,but that`s what struck me when I first saw it .(just a point of interest) :D
So it does! I’d not considered that at all but think you could very well be right. Thank you very much Bors

Would it be more likely to be associated with the nearby chapel or the pub? No don’t answer that cause I suspect I already know the answer :D
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leadtokendavid
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alloverover wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:52 pm Had this tiny little thing recently, only the size of a round farthing, group M by looking at you site David ?
I couldn't use the email address of the site for some reason. So here are some images , to be honest I've never come across such a small token 👍
The LTT website address www.leadtokens.org.uk expands to http://www.mernick.org.uk/leadtokens/ when you click on it; you can use either. The site is kindly hosted for me by a friend, another member of the Token Corresponding Society, hence why his name appears in the expanded version.

The BNJ54 article on these is online at http://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/ ... _54_11.pdf, which reminds me, I need to update the LTT bibliography! It discusses all the smallest tokens of the 15th and 16th cents, starting from about 1425.
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Oxgirl wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:07 am So it does! I’d not considered that at all but think you could very well be right. Thank you very much Bors

Would it be more likely to be associated with the nearby chapel or the pub? No don’t answer that cause I suspect I already know the answer :D
The Lamb of God reverse is much more common on lead back in the late-mediaeval period period before the Reformation {e.g. type BNJ53 types C,D,F}, and extending possibly a little up to as far as the early 16th cent. I agree that the animal looks fairly similar on the 18th cent piece but apart from communion tokens {which don't usually depict much} there is little if any ecclesiastical lead at this date. Also, to be a Lamb of God it has to have the flag and staff. Not impossible, however, that the manufacturer saw a picture of the Lamb of God in a church somewhere and used it as a model.
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alloverover
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leadtokendavid wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:41 pm The LTT website address www.leadtokens.org.uk expands to http://www.mernick.org.uk/leadtokens/ when you click on it; you can use either. The site is kindly hosted for me by a friend, another member of the Token Corresponding Society, hence why his name appears in the expanded version.

The BNJ54 article on these is online at http://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/ ... _54_11.pdf, which reminds me, I need to update the LTT bibliography! It discusses all the smallest tokens of the 15th and 16th cents, starting from about 1425.
Cheers David, I used the 'mail@leadtokens.org.uk' that came up on the contact details, I got a Mailer Daemon back saying it couldnt be delivered as " This message has been blocked for containing SPAM like characteristics" , i attatched 2 images in the boxes provided.
Anyways, lovely little tokens that I never knew existed :D :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Easylife
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A 23mm diameter lead token of 2mm thick, the reverse is blank. I'm not sure of the correct orientation nor the design. It appears to depict a snake, some crosses, perhaps a fleece, and maybe a kind of reversed 'J' or shepherd's crook? Any ideas?
IMG_20210324_104712.jpg
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leadtokendavid
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Favour initials JS; retrograde carving of moulds is not that uncommon, particularly in the 18th cent, which is what the style of this suggests. I'd prefer a fishhook or two, that would be more interesting, but one has to go for the obvious first. However, using J rather than I for J is a relatively late practice, not usually seen until quite well in to the 18th cent, whereas 23mm is a diameter which tends to suggest early 18th cent rather than late. On balance I think I have to say 18th cent and probably quite late 18th; there are still some small tokens then, e.g. the smaller values in the ranges of pickers checks such as used in Kent/Sussex and elsewhere. Could even be early 19th. Is it from one of the farming areas which are known to have used pickers' tokens?
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Easylife
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leadtokendavid wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:05 pm Could even be early 19th. Is it from one of the farming areas which are known to have used pickers' tokens?
I think so, it was found in Notts. I have seen a vague reference that the local village pub brewed beer in the 19th century, so guess they may have also grown hops locally.
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Hello,

First time poster - thanks for having me!

Have recently found these. The top one was found in London. The bottom one in Gloucestershire. Can anyone ID them, please? I thought the top one was unusual because it has a hole in it - perhaps it isn’t a token at all?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks.

Kevin.
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Oxgirl
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Liking those tokens :Star: we aren’t that fussy here about putting scale on items for ID but it can be very helpful for dating lead tokens. If you could provide the diameter it might help with dating.

I’ve never seen one with a hole in the centre before either. Sure David will enlighten us on the history of this type.
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Strat1
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Oxgirl wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:22 pm Liking those tokens :Star: we aren’t that fussy here about putting scale on items for ID but it can be very helpful for dating lead tokens. If you could provide the diameter it might help with dating.

I’ve never seen one with a hole in the centre before either. Sure David will enlighten us on the history of this type.
Many thanks for the reply: when I get home I’ll measure them and let you know dimensions.
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