Is this pottery rim sherd Huntcliff ware?

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Bes99
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I am liking the idea of pottery identification section.

I have been trying to find a match for this piece of decorated pottery found on a Roman villa site that I have dated via the metallic finds to 3-4th century, although there is likely much earlier settlement here as well. location is the boarder between East and North Yorkshire. I am thinking this pottery is Huntcliff ware due to the colour, the decorated grooves and the calcite gritty texture. Are the experts able to confirm this or point me in another direction please? Interestingly the rim is a really wide, must have been fairly big vessel. Do the experts know where I can see an example a little more complete? (quite nice to pick up a decorated rim normally I just get loads of base sherds of this type)

Thanks in advance for any help :D
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Blackadder43
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Hi Bes, nice to see you here :thumbsup:

I have placed your topic into the pottery forum, only because thats the first place that Potteryman looks to see whats new :thumbsup:

He is a knowledgable chap and we are all learning from his posts :clapping:

Enjoy your stay here and we hope you find us useful :ugeek:
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Oxgirl
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Warm welcome to the forum from me too :D Pottery Man is a night owl it seems but looks like there’s a lot to do on his next trip here. I think people are emptying their pottery boxes :lol:
Yes I really don’t like Roman coins, I’m not joking
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Ladybird66
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Welcome aboard Bes. Nice to see another bits and pieces fiend join the club.
I speak as one to another :thumbsup:
My window ledges are littered with them, seldom come home without something in my pocket.
I agree with Cath, a few of us have just been waiting for the opportunity to get a few bits identified. I’d be one if I hadn’t had so many other things going on in my, otherwise, quiet existence.
I’ll get around to it sooner or later. Later being the operative word. It’s now 3.11am, great time, no one else around to drive me nuts, except an old dog who just has to pee twice through the night 😳
Pottery Man
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Huntcliff is a signal station... a military site and not big, so with no reason to have a kiln. East Yorkshire calcite-gritted grey wares have been associated... have been found ...on site and that gives rise to Huntcliff-type grey ware.
Yes, I see no reason to disagree except it is lightly gritted with smaller inclusions, and as more kiln sites are found in the future, no doubt an academic will steer us to "lightly gritted Yorkshire grey ware of the later 3rd but more likely 4th century". I will expect to find a coastal or population centre kiln site will appear out of the NE and claim a number of similar greywares. Find the clay source near to a limestone beach or Iron-age quarry site and you could become famous.
Another point is that the impressed ring decoration is new to me.
In acidic ground conditions, the calcite (burned limestone) can dissolve out leaving vesicles (holes) and the pottery will appear different, being lighter in weight, full of muck and just grey.
A good self identification! Well done.
Pottery Man
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A little more on the Huntcliff-type..... did just get a text message earlier to suggest you look at Knapton-ware, a late C4th kiln site producing..... wait for it...... calcite-gritted grey wares and Huntcliff-type pottery. (Did you know that Huntcliff produced a substantially entire single pot upon which the Huntcliff name was acquired.... just one pot.... and an amount of other diverse pottery finds ?)
The Knapton site is east of Malton on the road to Scarborough (or Huntcliff if you turn north-east)
Fourth Century........... sleep well.
Pottery Man
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Huntcliff was possibly sourced from Knapton kilns where very similar calcite gritted grey or brown pottery was produced.
Knapton is associated with kilns at Norton and not far from the DMV settlement extensively excavated by Beresford & Hurst with the Leeds Uni Extra Mural Studies people over many years..... and I was there, too! We certainly had 4th century grey wares on site.

Alongside the calcite gritted stuff is the shell-tempered Dales ware. Virtually identical except that Dales ware is predominantly ground shell fragments instead of crushed limestone.

quote:- "The type of Dales-ware cooking-pot considered here is common in northern England, is precisely datable, appears to have been fashionable only for a short period, and has an unmistakable profile. It is thus especially valuable as an index of chronology.
Though there are exceptions, most examples of the type are made in the same kind of fabric. This fabric is hard and coarse, with a smooth but unpolished surface; it is grey, black, or brown in colour. The body of the clay is charged with small fragments of white shell; these have often been dissolved by acids in the soil, leaving the surface pitted with shallow cavities, in the same way that pieces of mineral calcite are dissolved out of similar wares. ****noted earlier by potteryman
The fabric thus belongs to the same family of calcite-gritted wares as Knapton ware and as the Huntcliff type of cooking-pot, without being identical with them. Wares of this character, differing from each other markedly in form, but only slightly in fabric, are found in early Iron Age, Roman, and Dark Age horizons, and are widely distributed; they were especially common in the Roman period in what is now Yorkshire, and in the north-east midlands. They did not appear in large numbers on Hadrian's Wall before the fourth century."
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Oxgirl
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Wow that is detailed. Thank you Pottery Man, I learnt loads :D :Star:
Yes I really don’t like Roman coins, I’m not joking
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Bes99
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Pottery Man wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:03 am A little more on the Huntcliff-type..... did just get a text message earlier to suggest you look at Knapton-ware, a late C4th kiln site producing..... wait for it...... calcite-gritted grey wares and Huntcliff-type pottery. (Did you know that Huntcliff produced a substantially entire single pot upon which the Huntcliff name was acquired.... just one pot.... and an amount of other diverse pottery finds ?)
The Knapton site is east of Malton on the road to Scarborough (or Huntcliff if you turn north-east)
Fourth Century........... sleep well.
Thank you for looking into this and for the information provided, I will start reading up on Knapton-ware. I know the place quite well I have found flint tools in this area before. I often find this type of pottery but not normally with the decoration so this piece stood out somewhat. :thumbsup:

If anyone is interested in calcite gritted ware (4th century in the North (a little specialist I know)) I found this dissertation that is really quite interesting upon my quest of learning more about Knapton and Huntcliff types which sets things out nicely: https://www.academia.edu/39721496/Disse ... 522_pzywjo
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