Updated advice for England

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Saffron
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Fisher 1266 X wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:43 pm
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Unless you have permission from a public landowner ie a council, you cannot detect at all ....except for you garden :pulling hair out:
Sorry but you can not even detect in your own garden, as that would come under the definition of "private land" :thumbdown:

Evan
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Easylife
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The latest Government guidelines/law clearly states that you can travel to spend time or exercise outdoors - detecting is exactly that, so simples! :thumbsup:
C'mon, who would go searching for some culture body that they have likely not even heard of to see some completely illogical guidance? No doubt that clear error will surely soon be amended??? :cry:
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Fisher 1266 X
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Saffron wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:17 pm Sorry but you can not even detect in your own garden, as that would come under the definition of "private land" :thumbdown:

Evan
The context of 'private land' used in the Covid legislation means land that isn't owned by the Government or yourself.

If you actually own the property - freehold, you are the landowner, and therefore permitted to carry out any lawful and permitted action.
Playing very loud music or using a weapon such as an airgun/shotgun in your back garden for example would be examples of unlawful actions if in close proximity to a neighbouring property.
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Steve_JT
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I’ve fired an email to Oliver Dowden

Nicely of course, to reconsider the restriction and allow private land to be detected

Regards Steve
A foolish faith in authority, is the worst enemy of truth." Albert Einstein
Pete E
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I think you will find the legal definition of a public space is different to what most people think...For instance, if you get stopped with a lock or fixed blade knife in your car, in legal terms it counts as a public space..
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Kenleyboy
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Oh well , thats put an end to my proposed trip out on the land this weekend . Its all a bit barmy if you ask me . From what I have read then you can detect on parks and beaches subject to permission where there is a possibility you will be in the vicinity of other beach and park users but a lone detectorist on their permissions are not permitted by law to be on the land despite not another soul in site for miles ! That to me doesn't make sense and no wonder people are getting confused and angry .
As far as I am aware fishing is still permissible and you can meet with one other person while maintaining social distances unless that has also changed over night . I cannot see the difference to that hobby and this hobby where both in general are lone pursuits . :thumbdown:
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Its probably a means to reduce the finding of archaeological items that the PAS cannot deal with. After all the DCMS are well aware of what detecting involves. However they have probably seen the opportunity to stop rallies.

Perhaps the usual not joined up thinking ,but then again perhaps not.

I am sure that the NCMD will get this sorted in due course.
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Pete E wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:38 am I think you will find the legal definition of a public space is different to what most people think...For instance, if you get stopped with a lock or fixed blade knife in your car, in legal terms it counts as a public space..
In a very basic nutshell Pete, a public space is anywhere outside the property boundary where you live.
A car outside your property is also classed as being in a public space including the car interior.

The second part of your post regarding knives is a seperate and slightly more complex issue:
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
Kenleyboy wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:52 am Oh well , thats put an end to my proposed trip out on the land this weekend . Its all a bit barmy if you ask me . From what I have read then you can detect on parks and beaches subject to permission where there is a possibility you will be in the vicinity of other beach and park users but a lone detectorist on their permissions are not permitted by law to be on the land despite not another soul in site for miles ! That to me doesn't make sense and no wonder people are getting confused and angry .
As far as I am aware fishing is still permissible and you can meet with one other person while maintaining social distances unless that has also changed over night . I cannot see the difference to that hobby and this hobby where both in general are lone pursuits . :thumbdown:
Agreed, barmy indeed! I could drive to a park several miles away and have a walk but can't walk around a field in the middle of nowhere with a detector :pulling hair out:
Fishing is classed as a sport and MD isn't.

Stay safe everyone :thumbsup:
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Saffron
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Kenleyboy wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:52 am Oh well , thats put an end to my proposed trip out on the land this weekend . Its all a bit barmy if you ask me . From what I have read then you can detect on parks and beaches subject to permission where there is a possibility you will be in the vicinity of other beach and park users but a lone detectorist on their permissions are not permitted by law to be on the land despite not another soul in site for miles ! That to me doesn't make sense and no wonder people are getting confused and angry .
As far as I am aware fishing is still permissible and you can meet with one other person while maintaining social distances unless that has also changed over night . I cannot see the difference to that hobby and this hobby where both in general are lone pursuits . :thumbdown:
FYI: I have just checked the Angling Trust guidance.
Angling is deemed a permissible form of ‘outdoor recreation’, and a lawful reason to leave home. It can take place, without time limits, within the provision allowing people “to visit a public outdoor space for the purposes of open air recreation”.

A ‘public outdoor space’ is defined as an ‘outdoor place to which the public have, or are permitted, access (whether on payment or otherwise).’ We believe this clearly includes riverbanks, towpaths, beaches and stillwaters that can either be accessed freely or on the payment of a day ticket or subscription levied by the owner or leased to a publicly available fishing association


(The underlining of "public outdoor space" is theirs.).

So the Angling rules are the same for metal detecting. You can fish / metal detect in a public outdoor space but not on private land / lakes or rivers.

The part about "can either be accessed freely or on the payment of a day ticket or subscription levied by the owner or leased to a publicly available fishing association" is interesting as if the same rules are applied to metal detecting if a club (that anybody can join) has access to its own land then that can still be detected (sadly my club does not).

Evan
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Re metal detecting, what if you have a permission on land covered by the CROW Act? Or you are detecting on a public footpath that crosses your permission?
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Saffron
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Pete E wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:50 pm Re metal detecting, what if you have a permission on land covered by the CROW Act? Or you are detecting on a public footpath that crosses your permission?
Unsure on the CROW Act. But a public footpath is actually private land with a right of access for the public, eg if a farm is sold the land where the footpath goes is included as part of the property of the farm so is private ... but the public have a legal right to use it.

Once the lawers have sorted out the US election they could look into this situation for you Pete :D

Evan
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Saffron wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:05 pm Unsure on the CROW Act. But a public footpath is actually private land with a right of access for the public, eg if a farm is sold the land where the footpath goes is included as part of the property of the farm so is private ... but the public have a legal right to use it.

Once the lawers have sorted out the US election they could look into this situation for you Pete :D

Evan
Not for me..our lockdown is ending soon...for now anyway..

Another interesting perspective..if the farmer owning your permission has leased out the fishing or shooting on his land, does that mean it now counts as to being accessable to the public and you can detect there?
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Kenleyboy
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Saffron wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:21 pm FYI: I have just checked the Angling Trust guidance.
Angling is deemed a permissible form of ‘outdoor recreation’, and a lawful reason to leave home. It can take place, without time limits, within the provision allowing people “to visit a public outdoor space for the purposes of open air recreation”.

A ‘public outdoor space’ is defined as an ‘outdoor place to which the public have, or are permitted, access (whether on payment or otherwise).’ We believe this clearly includes riverbanks, towpaths, beaches and stillwaters that can either be accessed freely or on the payment of a day ticket or subscription levied by the owner or leased to a publicly available fishing association


(The underlining of "public outdoor space" is theirs.).

So the Angling rules are the same for metal detecting. You can fish / metal detect in a public outdoor space but not on private land / lakes or rivers.

The part about "can either be accessed freely or on the payment of a day ticket or subscription levied by the owner or leased to a publicly available fishing association" is interesting as if the same rules are applied to metal detecting if a club (that anybody can join) has access to its own land then that can still be detected (sadly my club does not).


Evan
So I can go fishing on a day ticket water alongside other anglers social distancing in place , I can also metal detect on a public beach/Park subject to the local bi laws but I cannot fish a private water alone with no other anglers about and neither metal detect alone on private land !
Bizarre , but rules is rules but the mind boggles .
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Saffron
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Kenleyboy wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:53 pm
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So I can go fishing on a day ticket water alongside other anglers social distancing in place , I can also metal detect on a public beach/Park subject to the local bi laws but I cannot fish a private water alone with no other anglers about and neither metal detect alone on private land !
Bizarre , but rules is rules but the mind boggles .
Correct.

I just posted what the rules were, I did not make them.

Above all please do not ask me to explain the logic of them, because I certainly can not see any.

Fortunately the NCMD are on the case and hopefully can sort this out, and get us back to a situation where we can safely go detecting with no risk of spreading the virus.

Evan
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Easylife
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To be quite honest, the DCMS rules just read like they are an anti-detecting body really. No doubt like many others I am genuinely interested to hear of their possible attempt at justifying a blanket ban on private land? Maybe best to not speculate really, but it really does make you wonder if they have much of a clue about metal detecting at all!
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