Latest advice from the NCMD on lockdown 2

[Oxgirl]

Find out how many members they have, then multiply by £8
It’s a great con

Shame the people run it don’t get paid a penny then really isn’t it

[Easylife]

If your landowner wants to break rules made by the government (not the NCMD) then its up to him.

Do you really think that any landowners at all are actually aware of these hidden rules? Gee, most casual detectorists aren't even! There will be no prosecutions at all of individuals detecting alone in the back of beyond as they are just following the given general government guidance in my opinion. So guess it's just down to the individuals interpretation and take your chances? But I'm not saying that you should, or that I will even, cos I'll just get barred until covid is over and that just ain't gonna be any time soon! So too long not to be part of TDH.

[Jamesey1981]

Do you really think that any landowners at all are actually aware of these hidden rules? Gee, most casual detectorists aren't even! There will be no prosecutions at all of individuals detecting alone in the back of beyond as they are just following the given general government guidance in my opinion. So guess it's just down to the individuals interpretation and take your chances? But I'm not saying that you should, or that I will even, cos I'll just get barred until covid is over and that just ain't gonna be any time soon! So too long not to be part of TDH.

I agree with you, the rule is clumsily written and stupid, and I actually don't think it would be legally enforceable since the courts have stretched the definition of public place to pretty much include everywhere you can access without cutting a hole in the fence.

However, I don't fancy being the test case, nor do I fancy having my photo splashed over one of the anti detecting blogspot sites, you know they would jump on it if they thought they had a chance to make us look bad.

I can't imagine the rule will get changed, but I'm glad the NCMD are trying. Until it does change I'll obey it no matter how stupid I think it is.

Let's use the laws on pocket knives as an example, when the laws were written preventing people carrying knives, they specifically excluded folding pocket knives with a blade under three inches, this was to remain legal. The law was not specific enough however, and a judge decided that if that pocket knife has a locking blade when it is locked it is not a folding blade, so that the enterprising judge could then prosecute the person that the police had put in front of him, even though that person had followed the law as it was written and intended.
As our legal system is mostly based on precedent we are now stuck with the situation that locking blades are not folding blades, even if they can be folded, all thanks to the overreach of a few police officers and a judge.

With new legislation there has to be a test case, as no one knows how it will go on the day, I'd rather that wasn't aimed at me, and whichever way it goes, it will give those anti detecting blogs ammunition to throw at us, hopefully it'll just be a month, I cant see them changing it earlier than the end of the lockdown, just not enough votes in it, but if it's longer then hopefully our representative body can fix it, but either way we're stuck with it for the moment.

[muddy mick]

Hi guys, sorry not been around for a while, this is all very confusing to be honest re detecting on private land etc the DCMS are saying one thing yet Public health England are saying the opposite during the current lockdown, below is a screenshot of public health England's view, like others I am unsure of the conflicting thoughts on the current situation, and have read reports of you / the landowners could be fined if approached by the Police, I personally am not going to take the chance to find out, better to be safe than sorry, and after all as many have said, the finds will still be there in December if we come out of lockdown then

[muddy mick]

Now im getting confused, type Public health England in search and the same Gov UK website comes us as from the NCMD link, So whats with the Joan Allen link / screenshot, all very confusing

[figgis]

Mick, I'd suggest only following the official DCMS ruling rather than any interpretation by outside bodies

[Littleboot]

Interesting discussion.....we are not tricksy politicians and thus it is easy to cross lines and be somewhat blunt in our rhetoric...especially when passions run high. As they do in most of us IMO given some of the utterly shameful nonsense and downright provable lies that are being promulgated by government and the media. It is interesting to note that French message boards and general comments on media sites here, echo the same frustrations and building resentment (except in French...I have learned a whole new raft of derogatory French while reading them ). It isn't that people are not inclined to pull together over this virus, it is more a feeling that there are rules for the public and not those in power. And that some rules are being applied for reasons other than logical control of the virus....but more about just control, period.
There has never been such distrust in the general populace regarding authority (be it government or whatever), vested interests, quangos, and a mainstream media that is clearly bought and paid for by all of those things.
Folks are seeing incompetence, meddling and it has been going on so much that now they are understandably getting upset.
So the problem is, ALL bodies and official representatives, however trivial and however benign, are going to suffer the knock-on of this massive wave of distrust. Many people are wired to rebel against a feeling of being herded, bullied or just generally imposed upon.
There will come a point, unless this huge problem is addressed (and that doesn't mean another of Boris Johnson's platitude-ridden Churchill-lite speeches) when people decide that the contract is broken. Once trust and faith in the rules and laws is eroded to this extent it is very hard to enforce new ones. And that will be every bit as far-reaching as the appalling economic fall-out.

[Easylife]

So NCMD asked DCMS to explain the reasoning for their very odd decision but they basically just declined to answer the question it seems, which makes it even more concerning. Many government organisations deem themselves to be above the law in my own experience and would rather run up huge public costs rather than admit to any fault.

[Oxgirl]

Now im getting confused, type Public health England in search and the same Gov UK website comes us as from the NCMD link, So whats with the Joan Allen link / screenshot, all very confusing

I suspect it’s old advice.

[muddy mick]

I suspect it’s old advice.

1st paragraph states 5/11/20 dunno all very strange, hopefully we will get a update from the NCMD next week

[Kenleyboy]

There has unfortunately been a stack of confusion since the very beginning with one thing and another and when the second lock down came into play the NCMD gave us the good news that we could continue with our hobby unlike the total ban on the first lockdown . Finally at last someone saw sense to ease the restrictions and allow us to comply within the rules and continue with some sort of normality in place .
I saw and read the first lockdown thread and was pleased to see the NCMD announcing that all was good and if I had not looked in on the forum I would have been none the wiser , I even saw a chap metal detecting on the Thursday afternoon and thought that will be me in a few days time once the weekend arrives .
Sadly not to be after reading the update on here so I called the Landowner to tell him I will have to cancel my visit until further notice . He was as mystified as me with the barmy rules but rather than take a chance and bring trouble to his door I am going to sit it out until things settle down . Hopefully the NCMD can fight our corner but somehow I just get the feeling this appeal will just get brushed aside .

[Littleboot]

So NCMD asked DCMS to explain the reasoning for their very odd decision but they basically just declined to answer the question it seems, which makes it even more concerning. Many government organisations deem themselves to be above the law in my own experience and would rather run up huge public costs rather than admit to any fault.

It is worse than that. They not only deem themselves above the law, they have so far moved the goalposts under the cover of this pandemic that they ARE the law....and the law is anything they deem it to be. Democracy is now a quickly failing mirage I am afraid...you only have to look at what has recently happened in the US (beyond the Mainstream Media spin) to see that. If it looks like a totalitarian regime, behaves like one, talks like one, uses force like one, lies like one, and everything else.....then it is one. That doesn't mean one doesn't or shouldn't comply with the edicts of course. Far from it because it is much more dangerous to break these rules now than it ever was before. It means that we can't kid ourselves we are doing it for the same reason we were doing it before.....you know, wanting to do the right thing, wanting to help and pull together etc etc....we are, at bottom, to some degree or other, now complying because we are afraid.

[TheFenTiger]

Maybe if those pay to dig events that were clearly against the rules hadn't have gone ahead then the DCMS might have had less whispers in its ear and may have been a bit more lenient. Is very much a sledgehammer to crack a nut but the consequences are plain to see and shows what can be done behind the scenes regarding the hobby. We can be our own worst enemies as can be seen by those still wanting to flout the rules.

[Steve RC]

Very true indeed. Certain sectors of the hobby have a propensity to cause problems driven by the desire of organisers to make money whatever the situation. Those negative publicity from certain events of the last few weeks will not have been lost on the establishment and the fallout will continue to affect the majority who have absolutley no interest in the Pay to Dig events long after Lockdown.

[tone]

it seem's fishing is ok in the lockdown so if you have permissions with lake's and the lake's are leased to fishing club's would detecting around the lake's be breaking the lockdown ruling on detecting. ?