The latest covid regulation guidance

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Oxgirl
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I admire the straight talking thats going on by most right now. There appears to be two distinct camps in this lockdown - the ‘stay at home’ gang and the ‘I can use common sense and do things that aren’t risky’ gang. I like that both have a strong conviction in their views.

However there are a few in the middle that pretend to sit in one camp because they think it’s what everyone wants to hear but really are in the other. There the ones that annoy me because they can’t be honest and stand up for their beliefs. I’ve seen them on social media and other forums and they always give themselves away.

Personally I’m annoyed about the hypocrisy of the Government’s decision to let the fishing brigade go out. I hate this lockdown and am tetchy and annoyed about it but if I have to sit at home then I will. But the private land stupidity has to be re thought when we move out if lockdown and back to the tier system. There’s no scientific basis for that from what I can see but if there is then the DCMS need to explain it so it makes sense to everyone.
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Steve RC
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Saffron wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:43 pm Golf, despite being a multi million pound sport supporting thousands of jobs in the UK, is not allowed - as all the frustrated golfers I know will confirm.

When semi-professional and amateur football, amateur horse racing, and golf (all 3 sports with a dramatically larger uptake than detecting, and all supporting large numbers of jobs), are banned I fail to see how some people claim that metal detecting is being singled out for being shutdown.

As for cycling, running and walking throughout the pandemic we have been told to minimuse close contact with others and if possible avoid public transport, all of these 3 options are viable alternatives for people to get to / from work - if they were banned it would result in more people on public transport and an increase in the spread of the virus.

Evan
Point taken about golf and i have now edited my post to reflect that. It does go to show that the confusion that surrounds the whole situation.

I have taken a different view on matters than others to make comment and what Oxgirl has clearly stated it is the hypocrisy with respect to the private land stance taken by the DCMS and their advisors that is the issue for our hobby /pastime. In this aspect i draw conclusions from the situation with respect to fishing.

Like you all i am feeling the effects of Lockdown in not being able to take excercise in my chosen way, but i dont really fit into any particular camp on this issue. I can see the logic in the many arguments made for restrictions imposed on the general population and yet some defy logic whilst i can equally understand the comments made by others on this thread. Hence i look at the history of metal detecting and archaeological politics for an answer to the metal detecting issue and with it the special arrangements that some parties have with the DCMS.

However that does not imply that i want to see a detecting free for all and i feel it would be better if the DCMS were to apply the level playing field approach to all sports and stop the lot including fishing for the duration.
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Oxgirl
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Steve RC wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:54 am

However that does not imply that i want to see a detecting free for all and i feel it would be better if the DCMS were to apply the level playing field approach to all sports and stop the lot including fishing for the duration.
That is the nub of the problem Steve, I absolutely 100% agree with you. By allowing fishing they created a lot of angry, frustrated people who can’t see why their hobby isn’t allowed too. The simple fact is none should have been allowed.

Stupidly they have now also built river banks and waterway access into the definition of ‘public access land’ in the legislation too, so removing it now would cause an even bigger public outcry. Those MPs who enjoy fishing did a good job in helping themselves to get what they want and make sure it stays there.
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Steve RC
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Yes it has always been a case of who you know and not what you know to get what you want.

Still i can now take the dog for a walk on the local section of the river bank safe in the knowledge that it is public access land. :thumbsup:
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DaveP
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You have to keep in mind that for some areas of fishing they probably didn't have a choice or it would have been difficult to object.
I can walk along the Thames paths in many, many areas - it's been public access for yonks and I used to fish it as a nipper. Even under Covid rules I could sit on the bank as part of my walk. It then becomes a little difficult to argue how long I'm allowed to sit and who would check up on me.

I agree with other posts. When communication isn't consistent it leads to unhappy people.
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Oxgirl
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DaveP wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:44 am You have to keep in mind that for some areas of fishing they probably didn't have a choice or it would have been difficult to object.
Not exactly true. We can’t detect because we are classed as exercise and leisure. So fishing needed to be classified as exercise to be allowed. That was what shouldn’t have been agreed.

And then they needed access to all river banks and waterways on both public and private land to make sure they could all go fishing, and got that too.
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DaveP
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Oxgirl wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:06 am So fishing needed to be classified as exercise to be allowed. That was what shouldn’t have been agreed.
I agree - fishing is not exercise unless you have to carry your gear across a shingle beach or out in a boat in a strong swell. Always sleep well after that!

It is what it is but my guess is the angling lobby didn't try to go for an "exercise" classification. They probably made a much stronger case (metal health, largest participation sport etc.) and the only way it could be allowed was to change the classification.

There are just too many if's, but's and maybe's. As I mentioned once before I could (had I wanted to) detect right across the middle of a large maize field but not on the bulk of the filed. There's a footpath and footpaths are classed as a public space whereas the dirt next to it is private land.

We'll just have to go with the flow.
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DaveP wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:19 am There's a footpath and footpaths are classed as a public space whereas the dirt next to it is private land.
I would have to look it up but I am not sure that is true. It is private land with permitted public access as a right of way. Doesn't mean you can detect it as it is a public space. There are people new to the hobby that think this is the case that because it is "public" they can detect on it without any permission. Public spaces from my interpretation would be owned by councils or the crown.
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Kenleyboy
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I believe if you are going to lock something down then lock it down in its entirety and not pick certain branches of a hobby or pastime and give those factions the go ahead while denying other branches those freedoms . It creates a division as well as confusion and prompts anger and frustration .
The last lockdown allowed beach and public park detecting subject to permission but not a lone person on private land , that to me was the most ridiculous rule that came into play , considering we are trying to stem the spread of the virus then surely being in and around others despite social distancing clearly hasnt worked because of the state we find ourselves in right now . Lockdown should mean what it says and lock it all down when this first kicked off and not cherry pick one against the other .

I see a very healthy debate on this thread and can see both sides of a very valid argument and like many on here I would like to think we are all responsible adults and feel we make our own personal choices and judgements based on our behaviour and outlook on what is quite clearly a hotly debated subject . I respect each and everyones opposing argument that differs to my own and I for one do not believe the ncmd are fighting to open the floodgates for all metal detectorists to get the go ahead to descend upon their respective permissions but some social media platforms would have you think otherwise . There are certainly those with an agenda against the ncmd stirring up all sorts and pretending to be against the ban when they are quite clearly not , stop the bullxxxx and be honest rather than keep poking the fire , the situation is dire enough as it is !
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DaveP
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I did look in to the footpath designation and it's still private land but with a public space designation - it's a case of the wording used on the paperwork. It was more of an academic exercise as the path in question moves every year. The whole field is ploughed for convenience and the path re-instated but never in exactly the same place every time. It just seemed daft that I could collect lithics on the path (power-harrowed dirt) but not on the field which is the same power-harrowed dirt.

I didn't mean to imply you could get away without permission - it's still needed. It was just a case that in the same field where I have permission, and crumbs of dirt apart, there was a time when I could have detected in a public space but not a private space/land when they were part of the same field.

When you dig into (no pun intended) these areas you come up with some odd information. A neighbour (lawyer) has just bought some land with a small river running through. However, the banks are owned by someone else. The question came up of "how much ground is included in a river bank?" And then you find out that it's none. The river bank defines the edge of the river but has no dimensions. None of us believed it until we worked it through with the agencies and the associated laws. And it only came to light due to the unusual situation of different ownership of the bank and adjacent land.

There are all sorts of oddities out there which only come to light when you ask the question but the questions normally don't need to be asked.
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DaveP wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:58 pm
When you dig into (no pun intended) these areas you come up with some odd information. A neighbour (lawyer) has just bought some land with a small river running through. However, the banks are owned by someone else. The question came up of "how much ground is included in a river bank?" And then you find out that it's none. The river bank defines the edge of the river but has no dimensions. None of us believed it until we worked it through with the agencies and the associated laws. And it only came to light due to the unusual situation of different ownership of the bank and adjacent land.

There are all sorts of oddities out there which only come to light when you ask the question but the questions normally don't need to be asked.

I must admit I have never heard of an independant landowner owning the banks of a river on someone elses property . A friend of mine has a river running through his property , he owns the bank on his land and can fish to the halfway point while the opposite bank is owned by his neighbour who can do likewise . On our private woodland lake there are four seperate landowners each owning their own respective banks and we have access to one bank only while the others do not permit the use of their banks . It can be a minefield out there .
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Easylife
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Kenleyboy wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:27 pm I must admit I have never heard of an independant landowner owning the banks of a river on someone elses property. A friend of mine has a river running through his property , he owns the bank on his land and can fish to the halfway point while the opposite bank is owned by his neighbour who can do likewise.
It is often the case that the center of a watercourse defines a boundry. But I was wondering if owning a river bank on it's own is the same as just owning the rights to use it?
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Well i'm off to do a bit of dowsing and before anyone gets their knickers in a twist its my field and I'm taking my dog... he likes fetching sticks!
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Easylife wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:46 pm It is often the case that the center of a watercourse defines a boundry. But I was wondering if owning a river bank on it's own is the same as just owning the rights to use it?
I have never known it not to be in all my angling career but you never know with some of the barmy laws . Fishing beyond the middle reaches of the river from your bank is essentially poaching but it is a grey area and largely overlooked and generally accepted however there have been cases when situations such as this which have ended up in Court .
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HolzHammer wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:03 pm Well i'm off to do a bit of dowsing and before anyone gets their knickers in a twist its my field and I'm taking my dog... he likes fetching sticks!
Now remember that you are only allowed to dowse for water because if you dowse for metal..... let's not go there! :rollinglaughing:
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