An interesting viewpoint......

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Jamesey1981
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All hobbies have their fair share of dinosaurs, although ours by its very nature probably has more than most.

There's a few in my club that oppose any change or improvement that's suggested by those of us that are smart enough to live in the real world, and unfortunately we can't get rid of them as easily as the NCMD did.

The nonsense about the insurance has bitterness written all over it, but some will believe it, no matter how many times the insurer themselves say that it's wrong.

Hopefully this won't drag on forever and then we can all get back to detecting without small and petty people trying to kick up a fuss because their nose has been put out of joint due to their own actions, I for one am happy with the changes, and would be happy for the NCMD to go more in the direction of BASC, charge a bit more, 8 quid is nothing, and have some full time lobbyists and officers fighting for us, I don't expect people to work for free, I don't, and if we have some paid lobbyist positions then it will help fight the various threats to the hobby that come up from time to time.
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Remember there are some in the hobby who very much have their own agenda and see the NCMD as hinderance to that agenda...Their agenda is the only agenda that matters, so any discourse with in the hobby re the NCMD is seen as a benefit to them...
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TheFenTiger
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For those like myself who hadn't seen to reason for the NCMD statement, here are the accusations in the Archaeology and Metal Detecting Magazine from the Midlands region. Now having read this and re-read the NCMD statement, things make a little more sense. I still don't see why people would refuse to attend a zoom meeting and only insist on face to face when it was clearly not practical or even legal at the time.

It does seem that there is a reluctance to move forward. It is not 1980 any more and the NCMD must move with the times as everyone around them has.

https://archmdmag.com/statement-from-nc ... ohn-wells/
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Oxgirl
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Don’t believe everything you read. The NCMD made it clear that there were two ‘serious incidents’ that led to the 5 people in the 4 regions being told they would no longer be recognised by the NCMD. I seriously doubt that those 5 not attending meetings would be anything but a relief to everyone else so I doubt that is one of the incidents they refer to or the reason given to the individuals.

I also note they exaggerate the reserves, inflating it by around £60k. Also they claim the £21k for a comms person is to do PR when the NCMD have put out a job description that clearly states it’s for managing the creation of a new website and other member comms. It seems they either too lazy to read, can’t understand basic English or are twisting everything to suit their own agenda.

So is any of the rest of it true either? :roll:
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TheFenTiger
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Nowhere in the constitution of the NCMD, drawn up by Norman Palmer QC does it mention zoom meetings or any requirement to attend meetings during a global pandemic and where there is no existential threat to the hobby or the NCMD.
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I doubt anyone would have been able to predict a global pandemic and envisage 30 odd years ago that there would be the technology to enable people to have remote meetings on a computer so how could that have been written in to a constitution? There have been thousands of groups across the country in the last 18 months that have carried on online using this technology. I still cannot see why they would refuse to participate unless there is something else in the background. The impression is that there is a great reluctance to change in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
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Bigtim1973
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The same type are over here to. They lay around and complain and do not want change or can accept it.


I do not affiliate with a club or organizations due to that type.


I am kind of a lone wolf in the hobby where I am. I have tried to get together with other like minded folks as myself in groups and such but when I do I find some of them do not share similar interests at all.

They are just in it to leech off of others hard work.
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figgis
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TheFenTiger wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:04 pm
That just smacks of someone playing silly beggars to justify their actions. Ridiculous, but perhaps a pointer towards the mentality involved.
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Oxgirl
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figgis wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:24 pm That just smacks of someone playing silly beggars to justify their actions. Ridiculous, but perhaps a pointer towards the mentality involved.
A pointer? A great big 10m neon flashing arrow I’d say!
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Jamesey1981
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Nowhere in the constitution of the NCMD, drawn up by Norman Palmer QC, does it mention that delegates are required to be clothed during meetings, and are required to refrain from smearing themselves with woad and badger faeces when attending in their official capacity.....
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jcmaloney
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What irks the regions is that the Central Register probably represents 65-70% of the membership.
If those regions were more open, welcoming and willing to do the work individuals could join "their region" and then get guided towards "proper" clubs or just stay as individuals with a voice via their regional reps.
As most of the regions don`t want the work the CTR picks it up.

To be truly democratic the regional voting should be weighted relative to their membership.

Knowing both sides in this disagreement it will take a completely neutral mediator to sort it out but they would need the knowledge of the organisations history and historical differences to find a middle ground.

Whats the salary? :D
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jcmaloney wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:29 pm What irks the regions is that the Central Register probably represents 65-70% of the membership.
If those regions were more open, welcoming and willing to do the work individuals could join "their region" and then get guided towards "proper" clubs or just stay as individuals with a voice via their regional reps.
As I understand it, the Region's membership is mostly from the traditional bricks and mortar Clubs? If that is the case, how does the voting work? I ask because although I have been a member of one of those traditional Clubs for about three years, and we do get good feed back from Regional meets by our Club rep, I don't think I have ever been asked to vote on an NCMD issue via an NCMD ballot?

Does that mean the Region's have a block vote on members behalf and that block size is determined by membership within the Region?
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Jamesey1981 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:21 pm Nowhere in the constitution of the NCMD, drawn up by Norman Palmer QC, does it mention that delegates are required to be clothed during meetings, and are required to refrain from smearing themselves with woad and badger faeces when attending in their official capacity.....
Now that would be interesting to see and smell.

On a factual matter the late Professor Norman Palmer QC for a time acted as the legal advisor to the NCMD and helped on matters such as the proposed past Reviews of the Treasure Act, the Coroners and Justice Act and many more items of proposed legislation or statutory modifications to existing legislation which could have or would have had an impact on the hobby.

Norman had nothing whatsoever to do with drawing up the NCMD Constitution a document which was produced by Dennis Jordan and others in the early days of the NCMD. It was infact modified from one used by a Scouting group !!

Since that time it has been modifed and amended by successive Executive Committees at AGMs to update it and make it a workable document. A constitution is meant to be a guide to the proper and smooth workings of an organisation and not intended to be a straightjacket as some seem to want it to be otherwise the NCMD would never had got anything done.
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jcmaloney wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:29 pm What irks the regions is that the Central Register probably represents 65-70% of the membership.
If those regions were more open, welcoming and willing to do the work individuals could join "their region" and then get guided towards "proper" clubs or just stay as individuals with a voice via their regional reps.
As most of the regions don`t want the work the CTR picks it up.

To be truly democratic the regional voting should be weighted relative to their membership.

Knowing both sides in this disagreement it will take a completely neutral mediator to sort it out but they would need the knowledge of the organisations history and historical differences to find a middle ground.

Whats the salary? :D
Very true. The Regions are generally made up of closed to new member clubs and so unless new ones pop up to gather new members some become moribund to a degree run by the old guard who started the region in the first place some decades before. They become resistant to change and fixed in their views which is the situation we see curently with recent statements peppered with misinformation, skewed viewpoints , perceived grievances and so on. It would be useful to know just what percentage of NCMD members actually reside in the Regions.

Clearly the traditional Regional system is no longer fit for purpose and has had its day. The system worked when it was needed in the 80's as an organised base from which to protect the hobby from the threats then posed which were often on a more locally basis from Council bans on detecting, the not so well organised national STOP Campaign run by the CBA and others on a shoestring budget and those promoting various Private Member Bills of dubious content.

Those days have gone and the acceptance of the NCMD as the representative body for the organised hobby by HMG and just about everyone else is down to the work of the NCMD Officers and not any particular Region. The NCMD must move forward to become a professional organisation able to act and react in future situations. This cannot all be done with the best will in the world by unpaid part time eager voulunteers trying their best to deal with disparate issues posed by other organisations in a professionally staffed arena.
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As a member who joined via the net,wouldn’t this be the simple solution as it would make the membership more democratic with each individual being offered the chance to vote?
There are always going to be those who will resist change but regions are more open to group think mentality which makes political clashes more likely,as is happening now.
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Jamesey1981 wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:14 pm All hobbies have their fair share of dinosaurs, although ours by its very nature probably has more than most.
Fossil collectors may disagree? :D
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