Thomas Shaw, Button Maker

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Dave The Slave
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Out detecting yesterday on stubble and kept up my dismal return for the season so far.
First of all not getting any signals, not even from the spade :problem: . Tried this, tried that, decided to take control box cover off to check batteries which i knew were ok and the coil cable had unscrewed, reconnected with mole grip tension from my fingers and bingo ! All systems go, :Party: , huge sigh of relief.
Ten items dug. First being the ring pull, which made me chuckle as i remembered the scene from Detectorists.
The pop can was almost left, as the hole was getting so deep i was going to erect one of those triangular men at work signs but my friend insisted i keep going, came in at around 15".
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So that was it.
Now the Livery button was found by my friend. Plenty of Gilding left and a light brushing revealed the Makers details.
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T. Shaw.
20 Hemmings Row
London,
This maker seems to be missing from various button lists, however i did glean some info,
https://londonwiki.co.uk/streets1818/Hemmingsrow.shtml
Hemmings row was part of the more familiar Martins Hill Lane.
Each frontage would have been 5 yds if all in a terrace of 20.
Have found some references to Militia buttons later in the Century but Thomas seems to be relatively unknown.
The button itself is very similar to one found by our own Steve T couple of years ago. although the chainwork is more round links compared to others seen
Appears to be the Wyndeham family, found Nr Ringwood, Hants.
At least i was given something to research, the power of a readable makers mark.
Cheers all, :thumbsup:
Dave.
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Easylife
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It's quite a bonus that the livery button is so clear, quite similar to this one?
https://www.myfamilysilver.com/pages/cr ... +Mountearl
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Saffron
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Always good to find a button that can be researched and tied in with a local family.

I do not remember using this site before, it lists Military Button Manufacturers in London 1800-1899
http://parkscanadahistory.com/series/sa ... on-mfg.pdf

For Thomas Shaw it gives the following -
21 Winchester Street 1807
20 Hemming's Row, Castle Street, Leicester Square. 1808-1819
20 Hemming's Row, St. Martin's Lane. 1811-1815.
19 Hemming's Row, St. Martin's Lane. 1820-1825
20 Hemming's Row 1826-1829

I wonder as the details are taken from the London trade directories if they ceased production about 1829-30?

Evan
Dave The Slave
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Very good link Evan :thumbsup: , especially as it shows Livery buttons from 1829 to probably 1844.
Very useful website.
Cheers, :thumbsup:
Dave.
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Saffron
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Dave The Slave wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:45 pm Very good link Evan :thumbsup: , especially as it shows Livery buttons from 1829 to probably 1844.
Very useful website.
Cheers, :thumbsup:
Dave.
The "Manufacturing History" section at the bottom is a bit confusing, its very simple if there is only one firm, but if more than one firm it needs to be tied in with the dates -
Thomas Shaw is originally at Winchester Street in 1807 .... this ties in with "Tallow chandler".
Then in Hemmings Row 1809-1829. .... this ties in with "Army & navy button maker." (although a lot of firms that made military buttons also did livery buttons)

You then have S.E. Shaw in Castle St, 1830-1838, and R. Shaw in Hungerford St, 1836-1839 ..... these tie in with "Army & navy (I think this still applies to Thomas as he was operating in 1829 and used this description), livery and foreign button maker (I think this is the other Shaws for 1830-39 as dates and description are different)"

You have E Shaw in Panton Street, 1840 .... this ties in with "Foreign button maker"

Finally you have Richard Shaw in Opera Arcade, 1841-1844 .... this is the "Button manufacturer"

So I still go for a date of 1809-1829 for your button, based on both the name and address.

Evan
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Oxgirl
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Easylife wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:30 pm It's quite a bonus that the livery button is so clear, quite similar to this one?
https://www.myfamilysilver.com/pages/cr ... +Mountearl
That looks pretty close!
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Grumpy
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I can see I’m gonna get really hooked, very quickly!! I found this button the same day I found my first coin but didn’t think it was as worth asking about…
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Oxgirl
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Grumpy you’ll soon find livery buttons are truly fascinating. And what is nice is they are usually connected to local families :D Yours might be from one of a number of families, but if you don’t mind sharing the nearest large town to where you found it a full ID is easily possible too :thumbsup:
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Gleaner
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https://www.myfamilysilver.com/pages/cr ... =Mackenzie
https://www.myfamilysilver.com/pages/cr ... name=Blair
As Oxgirl stated :thumbsup:
I have found over 50 families with this same crest so will be hard to pin down I am afraid :pulling hair out: but the county where found could rule out some then we can see if the names left in the hat mean any thing to you
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Saffron
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Grumpy wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:13 pm I can see I’m gonna get really hooked, very quickly!! I found this button the same day I found my first coin but didn’t think it was as worth asking about…
Livery buttons, like this one, are always worth posting.

They nearly always belong to a local family, so give a rough idea where they were found as that will help us give a possible idea of who the family are.

Even of we can not find the family the button backmark can often be used to establish a date range using one of the links I provided above.

Ditto for hunting buttons.

Evan
Edit: Sorry posted this without reading Caths post above which basically says the same.
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Dave The Slave wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:23 pm the hole was getting so deep i was going to erect one of those triangular men at work signs
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Easylife
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Dave The Slave wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:23 pm The pop can was almost left, as the hole was getting so deep i was going to erect one of those triangular men at work signs but my friend insisted i keep going, came in at around 15".
That just gave me a flashback of digging a pop can in hard ground at 24" deep, there are some downsides to deep ploughing! :pulling hair out:
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Grumpy
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Morning, the nearest big town would be Chichester probably.
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Grumpy wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:30 am Morning, the nearest big town would be Chichester probably.
As i said in my earlier post there are many Families sharing this crest so can not pin it down to just one Family but here are four families using that crest who`s Surname appears in Sussex history in one way or another.
Starting with https://www.myfamilysilver.com/crestfin ... e=peckwell,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Peckwell, Family vault Chichester :?:
Staveley Offham Lewes
Norton Manor Iden
Hollingbury Arch deacon of Chichester 1770`s

IFFY to to say at least :?
:|
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