Hawking bell

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Saffron
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This is the little hawking bell I found the other week, nothing special to look at but rather an unusual find (and I know very few detectorists that have found one).
It needs a gentle clean and as complete a chance that after a soak with WD40 and gentle prods that it might ring again.

Evan
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Blackadder43
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Nice find fella :thumbsup:
never had one meself, which is surprising really considering the area i live in
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Saffron
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Blackadder43 wrote: โ†‘Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:59 pm Nice find fella :thumbsup:
never had one meself, which is surprising really considering the area i live in
Thanks BA, as I said its not the most stunning find to look at, but it is rare.

I think we need to remember that with the class structure when these were used on hawks for hunting for every "squire" or "noble" that flew a hawk there would have been several hundred, maybe a thousand, people that did not. These would have been paid with either lead tokens or low denomination coins every week or month where a hawk might lose a bell say once a year. Now consider how few tokens or medieval coins most of us find in a year, yet losses of these must have been very common compared with hawking bells. So it is to be expected that hawking bells are infrequent finds, its my first in about 10 years detecting and think I have only see one found when I have been on a dig.

But keep at it BA you could well get on next time.

Evan
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shaggybfc
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I'm going to have a look through my old button box - I've a few that look a bit like this, and I put them down as Tudoresq buttoms - I'll check to see if they ring :thumbsup: Give me something to do on the dark evenings
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Saffron
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shaggybfc wrote: โ†‘Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:24 am I'm going to have a look through my old button box - I've a few that look a bit like this, and I put them down as Tudoresq buttoms - I'll check to see if they ring :thumbsup: Give me something to do on the dark evenings
Looking at that photo I see why you might be confused between a button and this hawking bell

If you look at the photo where long line on the marker joins the bell you can just see the hole. Unless a real jem where it actually rings when you shake it (everybody that has handled this one has shaken it to see if it rings!) the hole is the give away that its a hawking bell rather than button.

Like shaggy I have had buttons that at a quick glance look like this, but the lack of the small hole is the clue.

On second thoughts I never bother rubbing the mud of "small buttons", maybe I should check my "old buttons" and give any like this a rub and remove the mud to ensure that they are buttons and that I do not have another hawking bell hidden in with them.

Evan
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Nice find and do hope it rings, can actually picture it and hear it back then.
Just checked on PAS out of 1,539,447 items recorded, only 5 attributed to Hawking bells and 2 of them are Silver, so indeed a rare find.
Well done, Evan. :thumbsup:
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Easylife
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Dave The Slave wrote: โ†‘Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:11 pm Just checked on PAS out of 1,539,447 items recorded, only 5 attributed to Hawking bells and 2 of them are Silver, so indeed a rare find.
On PAS I'm seeing 46 silver and 31 copper alloy potential hawking bells. Though none with just that single tiny hole, perhaps it was silvered and attached to clothing instead? :Thinking:
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No one has mentioned Morris dancers yet....Iโ€™ll get me coat.๐Ÿ˜„
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figgis
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I've seen so many items described as hawking bells although they clearly aren't. This one does seem more likely but my only reservation (based on the single image) is the size of the loop which is generally slightly wider. Having said that, I think the likelihood is high.

Cracking find, sir :thumbsup:
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Saffron
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Metalurgy wrote: โ†‘Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:56 pm No one has mentioned Morris dancers yet....Iโ€™ll get me coat.๐Ÿ˜„
Firstly, the bells used by Morris dancers are much larger than this.

Secondly, you had only got as far as "Morri" and I was already reaching for your coat to save you time on the way out :rollinglaughing: :rollinglaughing:

Actually when I replied to Shaggy and said "the hole is the give away that its a hawking bell rather than button." I very nearly added "unless its from a Morris dancers costume"

Evan
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Saffron
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figgis wrote: โ†‘Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:01 pm I've seen so many items described as hawking bells although they clearly aren't. This one does seem more likely but my only reservation (based on the single image) is the size of the loop which is generally slightly wider. Having said that, I think the likelihood is high.

Cracking find, sir :thumbsup:
I know what you mean about misidentification. However, some very experienced detectorists have seen it and all agree on the ID (in most cases I have passed it to them without comment so they made the ID independantly). Additionally the find site was only a few hundred yards from the site of a small motte and bailey castle, that had then had been a fortified house in medieval times, on slightly raised land - as such would have been a location where hawks could very well have been flown. So IMHO this strengthens the ID compared with it being found in a flat field with no immediate connection to "nobles".

FYI: Morris dancers have never been seen in the field nor immediate area. :)

Evan
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figgis
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Saffron wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:35 pm some very experienced detectorists have seen it and all agree on the ID
I'd be more inclined to get the opinion of an experienced falconer to secure the ID and fortunately... you have one :D The size and shape are right and the wider loop I prattled about on earlier is actually a more modern development. So I'd agree - hawking bell carries the highest probability and there aren't many of those found :thumbsup: Any chance of a pic of the underside opposite the loop, Evan?
Saffron wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:35 pm FYI: Morris dancers have never been seen in the field nor immediate area. :)
Lucky you! :lol:
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I have to confess, I thought hawk bells tend to have a larger and somewhat ornate slot rather than just a hole???

I too am going to be having a sort through my old buttons, as I am sure I have one or two not unlike this....?
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Saffron
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figgis wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:04 pm I'd be more inclined to get the opinion of an experienced falconer to secure the ID and fortunately... you have one :D The size and shape are right and the wider loop I prattled about on earlier is actually a more modern development. So I'd agree - hawking bell carries the highest probability and there aren't many of those found :thumbsup: Any chance of a pic of the underside opposite the loop, Evan?
Lucky you! :lol:

I think that somebody (to be fair to the accused I will not name them in public .... but Jenkins would recognise him when serving the gin) has just cheated and played a card that was hidden up his sleeve and not previously declared.

I have attached a better (hopefully) photo of the item, if nothing else it better shows the loop, and one of the side opposite the loop.

Could well be my eyes and imagination, but am starting to wonder if there might be a bit of a pattern on it under all the crud??.

For the heck of it also sending the photos to the FLO (but unsure if he is working as not had club meetings since before lockdown).

Evan

Evan
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figgis
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Saffron wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:36 pm I think that somebody (to be fair to the accused I will not name them in public .... but Jenkins would recognise him when serving the gin) has just cheated and played a card that was hidden up his sleeve and not previously declared.
:lol:

Thanks for the extra pics, Evan :thumbsup:

Very interesting. The holes should be equidistant(ish) from a centreline drawn perpendicular to thecentre of the loop. I'm wondering if that's the result of some apprentice soldering the loop onto the wrong part. Probly got a larraping for it if so!

Then again, maybe I just need more gin :D
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