Old pinfire cartridge headstamps

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Saffron
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I found this old disk with "12" on it ages ago. Initially wondered if it might either be
1) a strange token for a shilling, but why 12 (as in 12 pence) rather than saying 1 shilling?.
2) relating to a 12 bore shotgun cartridge, but it could not be a normal centre fire.

Never really thought any more about it until looking at the finds from the Anton Rally where I found what I thought might be a very thin token but looking at it earlier all that is readily readable the number "16".

On reflection I now believe them to be the ends and headstamps from old pinfire cartridges, representing 12 and 16 gauge cartridges. The size would certainly be about right being slightly larger than the bore of the gun. Just seems slightly strange that the more complete pinfire cartridges I have found have not had these markings.

Any thoughts?
Evan
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Blackadder43
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I find quite a few of these on a farm i go too, diggable signals everytime too :thumbsup:
The lady farmer is not a shooter, but in times past it was a great area for shooting until the motorway was put in around the 60's
Dave The Slave
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Have also found those.
Here are a couple of complete Pin fire cartridge heads i found couple of years back, 2x Eley Bros 12 Bore,
Image
Rarer 14 Bore,
Image
Cheers, :thumbsup:
Dave.
mattjb
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Dave The Slave wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:17 pm Have also found those.
Here are a couple of complete Pin fire cartridge heads i found couple of years back, 2x Eley Bros 12 Bore,
Image
Rarer 14 Bore,
Image
Cheers, :thumbsup:
Dave.
When I’ve found those they have been launched hedgebound along with the standard cartridge ends!
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Saffron
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Dave The Slave wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:17 pm Have also found those.
Here are a couple of complete Pin fire cartridge heads i found couple of years back, 2x Eley Bros 12 Bore,
<cut>
Dave.
Very many thanks for that Dave, it confirms my thoughts.

Evan
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Saffron
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mattjb wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:22 pm
<cut>

When I’ve found those they have been launched hedgebound along with the standard cartridge ends!
:thumbdown: :thumbdown:

These days there are a small number of large scale cartridge manufacturers. But back in those days there were lots of smaller local manufacturers, you could be throwing away local history.

Evan
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One of my farmers has the pinfire cartridge heads off me, to go with his collection of old gun stuff in his office, he likes the local ones with the old gun shops from Oxford, Buckingham, Banbury & Bicester on them,
When I show him my finds for the day & ask if he'd like some, he said you have the Roman & Medieval stuff & I'll have the cartridge Heads, lead bullets & musket balls if OK with you!
Clint :thumbsup:
Metalurgy
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I’ve found quite a few and if I remember correctly they had a short life from around 1850 to about 1860 so one of the earlier cartridges.
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Jamesey1981
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Metalurgy wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:07 pm I’ve found quite a few and if I remember correctly they had a short life from around 1850 to about 1860 so one of the earlier cartridges.
They did have a short lifespan, I think they hung around a little longer in revolvers due to patents held by colt, they had patented a revolver cylinder that was drilled all the way through and it took a while for anyone to come up with a way around it.

If anyone is interested in looking at some pinfire guns then there's a YouTube channel called forgotten weapons, really interesting firearms oddities as well as antique firearms.
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TheFenTiger
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Funnily enough, I found one of those on Sunday. I have had 3 from that permission now.
Dave
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Jamesey1981
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Was rooting about on YouTube and it just so happens that Ian from forgotten weapons has just made a new pinfire video, had to share it as it's an amusing one.

Sword gun, mightier than the pen gun....

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Easylife
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I'll have to have a closer look at my pinfires now! :thumbsup:
D2 - 13"x11" coil - audio only.
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Saffron
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Jamesey1981 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:28 pm Was rooting about on YouTube and it just so happens that Ian from forgotten weapons has just made a new pinfire video, had to share it as it's an amusing one.

Sword gun, mightier than the pen gun....

I do like that, very many thanks for sharing.

The theory might have sounded good, but I see why it was not so good in practice and never caught on.

Evan
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Jamesey1981
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Saffron wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:03 pm I do like that, very many thanks for sharing.

The theory might have sounded good, but I see why it was not so good in practice and never caught on.

Evan
It is an interesting curiosity, I think that's pretty much all it ever was to be honest, cool, but very very silly!

Would have been horrible to shoot, recoil with your wrist in a weak position and holding the weight of the blade, only plus side is that your wrist wouldn't hurt for long, after you have missed the person you were shooting at they would have very quickly shot you with their ordinary, boring and much less awkward gun before you got close enough to snap the blade off the sword....
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