The big machine debate - does there have to be a winner?

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Jamesey1981
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People always like to prove they are right, their choices were right, and everyone else's were wrong.

There's also the tribalism, we are animals that evolved from group living apes (and I have met some people that have just barely done so) and the tribal mentality that only your group is the right group persists.

Used to see it when I was a sports photographer, I used (still do) a Canon, and I would get some nonsense from nikon users, some Canon users would do the same to Nikon users.

Daft when you think about it.
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jcmaloney
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Oxgirl wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:50 am That doesn’t answer the question though does it? :D
I don`t criticise machines per se I just say what I see. :D
I`m Marmite me. Opinionated, obstinate and somewhat tenacious.
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Oxgirl
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jcmaloney wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:29 pm I don`t criticise machines per se I just say what I see. :D
Wasn’t criticising you at all. The point of this thread was to understand why there’s a need to criticise more generally, which is so common, particularly on Facebook. For example one topic on FB this week was about one machine but it ended up being a string of criticisms about the machine from owners of another make - the posters added nothing but negativity. It made me wondered why they did that which is why I posed the question here :thumbsup:
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Charles Abbeyville
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Jamesey1981 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:05 pm People always like to prove they are right, their choices were right, and everyone else's were wrong.

There's also the tribalism, we are animals that evolved from group living apes (and I have met some people that have just barely done so) and the tribal mentality that only your group is the right group persists.

Used to see it when I was a sports photographer, I used (still do) a Canon, and I would get some nonsense from nikon users, some Canon users would do the same to Nikon users.

Daft when you think about it.
:o You don't still believe in evolution do you??
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Jamesey1981
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Charles Abbeyville wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:50 pm :o You don't still believe in evolution do you??
I've met people that are irrefutable proof.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.

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BuriedByTime&Dust
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Discussion of the pros and cons of different machines is healthy and should be encouraged. Never take it personally - after all, we didn't design them or program them, all we did was buy them. If I bought something that was a bit rubbish, it wouldn't be the first time and I'll get over it :D

When it comes to the Deus, it needs a bit of experience to get the best out of it - particularly when it comes to deeper targets. Too many have a quick trial, dig the blatantly obvious signals and declare that it has no depth. User error, plain and simple. I thought the same when I first got the Deus and was never digging anything deeper than the clod. You either learn to tweak the settings and pick out the subtle squeaks or simply blame the machine and buy another.
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Easylife
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BuriedByTime&Dust wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:59 pm When it comes to the Deus, it needs a bit of experience to get the best out of it - particularly when it comes to deeper targets. Too many have a quick trial, dig the blatantly obvious signals and declare that it has no depth. User error, plain and simple. I thought the same when I first got the Deus and was never digging anything deeper than the clod. You either learn to tweak the settings and pick out the subtle squeaks or simply blame the machine and buy another.
I wrung it's bleedin neck! Maybe V5 is different but V4 was a right PITA for falsely buzzing iron as deeper non ferrous targets, so quite easy to miss many? But yes I do agree that you really have to pick out the finer subtleties or just get a more suitable detector which is better capable of the really deep stuff! After a few years the Deus just pissed me off mainly for the above reason and the same ground seems like new again even after a few years of using the Nox on it. Maybe V5 would have made some difference but is quite hard to see really, though I'd just lost all interest by then. But it's great if it works for you and you are confident that you are about not missing owt! :thumbsup:
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BuriedByTime&Dust
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Easylife wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:42 am I wrung it's bleedin neck! Maybe V5 is different but V4 was a right PITA for falsely buzzing iron as deeper non ferrous targets, so quite easy to miss many? But yes I do agree that you really have to pick out the finer subtleties or just get a more suitable detector which is better capable of the really deep stuff! After a few years the Deus just pissed me off mainly for the above reason and the same ground seems like new again even after a few years of using the Nox on it. Maybe V5 would have made some difference but is quite hard to see really, though I'd just lost all interest by then. But it's great if it works for you and you are confident that you are about not missing owt! :thumbsup:
Deep iron is a weakness with the Deus, that's a fact. It generally sounds a little "off" and can safely be dismissed but is sometimes good enough that you just have to dig to be sure. In doing so, you're pretty sure it's going to be a waste of time, but do it anyway...

I had an Equinox 800 for 18mths and that frequently gave lovely sweet tones (always with a VDI of 16ish) that turned out to be iron. Not even deep or holed iron, I'm talking large nails here! Two mates who have Noxes experience the same. They still have theirs, but I sold mine on. A good machine, but there are flaws that need ironing out, and I expect that they will be in due course.
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BuriedByTime&Dust wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:52 am I had an Equinox 800 for 18mths and that frequently gave lovely sweet tones (always with a VDI of 16ish) that turned out to be iron. Not even deep or holed iron, I'm talking large nails here! Two mates who have Noxes experience the same. They still have theirs, but I sold mine on. A good machine, but there are flaws that need ironing out, and I expect that they will be in due course.
I have a Nox, and that's definately one of its weaknesses. However, when you get a signal, when you switch into the pinpoint mode, the sound it makes as you pinpoint the target is a big clue. If the machine picks up the target several inches to the side of it and the volume increases, I find it's usually iron of one sort or another. If you only get a very clipped/short duration "blip" as the centre of the coil passes over the target, it tends to be smallish non ferrous....I still dig both types of signal though as you never know! lol

Another thought is that I wonder if this weakness for falsing on iron is because most Nox owners hunt with very little or no iron bias dialled in?
I wonder how many non ferrous targets we would miss running with an Iron Bias of say 4 or 5?
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Easylife
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BuriedByTime&Dust wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:52 am I had an Equinox 800 for 18mths and that frequently gave lovely sweet tones (always with a VDI of 16ish) that turned out to be iron. Not even deep or holed iron, I'm talking large nails here! Two mates who have Noxes experience the same. They still have theirs, but I sold mine on. A good machine, but there are flaws that need ironing out, and I expect that they will be in due course.
Occasionally iron does give a VDI of about 16 on the Nox but in full tones it is different from a non ferrous target so you just know it is most likely iron. Dropping from multi-frequency to 5khz will confirm it. Although not to be confused with deep targets next to iron as that is different again but the feedback is clear enough to interpret what is there. :thumbsup:
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Easylife
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Pete E wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:07 am I have a Nox, and that's definately one of its weaknesses. However, when you get a signal, when you switch into the pinpoint mode, the sound it makes as you pinpoint the target is a big clue. If the machine picks up the target several inches to the side of it and the volume increases, I find it's usually iron of one sort or another. If you only get a very clipped/short duration "blip" as the centre of the coil passes over the target, it tends to be smallish non ferrous....I still dig both types of signal though as you never know! lol

Another thought is that I wonder if this weakness for falsing on iron is because most Nox owners hunt with very little or no iron bias dialled in?
I wonder how many non ferrous targets we would miss running with an Iron Bias of say 4 or 5?
That's interesting, I never use pinpoint mode, I didn't know that anybody did? In fact I forgot it was there until you just mentioned it. I just do a quick X or use the front of the coil to pinpoint.
I mostly don't use any Iron Bias but occasionally use IB 1 to quieten things down if needed. IB makes targets sound more less non-ferrous so no doubt you would miss some of those very faint deep targets at higher settings. I often mean to experiment a bit on those targets but usually forget to. :thumbsup:
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Pete E
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I started using pinpoint mode on my Racer, and carried when I switch to the Nox....I find it gives me a bit more info about the target...You get an idea about its size and shape for instance...

Re 50 tones, I have only tried it briefly a couple of times, but really should try to get my head around it...That said, with those deep iffy targets that could be non ferrous, I think the only way to be certain is to dig...
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Good question , so here is my tuppence worth . Image , fashion conscious and materialism all seem to play a part in the way we behave within our chosen hobby or hobbies . I see it all the time in angling and no doubt plays its part elsewhere , this rod is better than that one just like this detector is better than that one and so it goes on .
The former will still catch you fish no matter what quality and the same goes for the latter , even a cheap machine will find you things depending on depth etc .
The facebook pages are the worse contenders , someone asks what machine is best at what budget and then its a free for all , the banter becomes nasty as it is all too easy to become spiteful and insulting on a faceless platform and the chances of you ever bumping into anyone you have just slated is rather slim and would they be quite as obnoxious if faced with that possible dilemma , I very much doubt it .
People tend to follow trends and Youtube has plenty of trendsetters at your disposal and some youtubers seem to be more involved in advertsing and promoting various machines and I am not saying that is a bad thing but it sows the seed in the latest must have all dancing and bell whistling state of the art bit of kit , the must have brigade fall for it all the time .
There seems also to be more of a competitive attitude to the way we live , you see it in everyday life and it drip feeds down into our respective interests , all the huffing and puffing chest out mentality and the petty jealousies finds it way into our hobby . I am all for a bit of banter but I have witnessed some nasty behaviour out on the fields which is unnecessary towards others just because they havent got the latest bit of kit , I think it just boils down to insecurity .
I loved my garret 250 despite the loud yellow , black would have toned it down a bit :lol: the Q40 is a great machine , I knew that inside out and now the deus lite does the job , it is light and that was part of the reason I upgraded but mainly its down to the individuals contentment , be happy with what you got and just enjoy yourself and not worry about what others think , never bothered me and never will :thumbsup:
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I guess also it might depend on whether you detect alone , with a couple of friends or go to rallies etc. Most of the time I’m on my own on my own permission so I’m not competing with anyone else or have others finds to compare with.
The way I see it is what I don’t find this year I’ll find another year when the plough pulls it up.
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Easylife
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I think I must be living under a rock as I don't see any of that kind of behaviour and I don't use FB. Oh the simple life for me. :D :thumbsup:
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