The big machine debate - does there have to be a winner?

User avatar
Kenleyboy
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:08 pm
Has thanked: 2088 times
Been thanked: 1747 times

Easylife wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:35 pm I think I must be living under a rock as I don't see any of that kind of behaviour and I don't use FB. Oh the simple life for me. :D :thumbsup:
Stick with living under a rock and steer clear of facebook :lol:
User avatar
figgis
Posts: 6931
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:21 pm
Location: Norfolk (just)
Has thanked: 4007 times
Been thanked: 4683 times

Mostly it's self-justifying tribalism with a dollop of willy waving thrown in, in the main, as has been eloquently put in previous posts. Add to that the tedious tendency to trot out opinion as fact which others then eagerly latch on to and you have the answer.

It's boring, but some have the strange need to have such conflict in their lives together with the need to look down on others :thumbdown:
User avatar
Jamesey1981
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:09 pm
Has thanked: 740 times
Been thanked: 475 times
Contact:

Oddly it never used to happen when I was a chef, we all spent thousands on our knives, I liked global, some liked victorinox, some liked dreizack, sabatier or henckels.

You only got any ribbing if your knives were blunt or dirty, no one cared which brand you had as long as you had the skills. I don't doubt that one-upmanship exists in some kitchens but I worked in a lot in several countries and I never really saw it.

Weird that some things attract the tribal attitude and some don't, maybe it was because its such a stressful environment anyway no one had time for the nonsense.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.

I'm a Mortgage Broker, please visit my website for help with your mortgage:
https://denariusmortgages.co.uk/
User avatar
shaggybfc
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:46 pm
Location: Warwick
Has thanked: 2110 times
Been thanked: 2458 times

We live in a society where for years we've been conditioned to think like this. Marketing and advertising has a lot to answer for when it comes to massaging consumer egos. "My dad's bigger than your dad", "My bike is faster than yours", "my girlfriend is prettier than yours" and "my 'hooter' is bigger than yours" (said from a male perspective). It goes back years - mods v rockers, Triumph v Norton, Yamaha v Kawasaki, Levi v Wrangler, team Edward v team Jacob... there is always a desire to show allegiance with one side or another, based on personal values. Of course you'll have people in the middle ground that say they don’t, but people like to belong – it’s human nature.

To answer your question; No there doesn't have to be a winner, but we all like to think we've sided with the winning team. As long as I have a hole in my rear end, brand loyalty will exist. Now, stop being snowflakes and getting offended by everything said and get out there detecting….
Always carefully proof-read what you've typed to see if you've any words out.
Deus with 11" X35 and 9" HF coils. MI 6 pinpointer.
Fisher 1266 X
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:25 pm
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 132 times

This is so easy.

Clothing v clothing = different jeans, shirts, coats etc etc etc etc etc.... errr.. it's just clothing.
Cars v cars = different models, specs, power,etc etc etc etc etc..... you get what you pay for....
Cameras v cameras = makes, formats, specs, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

A £10000 + camera will not produce a better photograph from a talented photographer with a £100 camera.

It's the same with metal-detectors, if you don't walk over a target, you'll not detect it..... simples.
NO detector has EVER found a signal over land we've searched with our machines EVER.

I've had my machine for 10-years and have yet to see a better machine.
Believe you me, if a detector came out that out-perfomed my current machine, I'd buy it ....no matter the cost.

I find that lots of detectorists 'chase the machine' rather than concentrate on what may actually exist in the ground.

We are seriously considering a move to the next new machine on the market.
If.... and only if it beats our current machines, we're in!

Exciting times ahead....
User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 9430
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:47 am
Location: Valhalla
Has thanked: 9561 times
Been thanked: 8446 times

Fisher 1266 X wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:20 pm NO detector has EVER found a signal over land we've searched with our machines EVER.
Now that is a very bold statement which could also be very true if no other detector has even ever searched the same ground. So just how often has another detector actually run over the very same ground to clarify your claim? :Thinking:
D2 - 13"x11" coil - audio only.
Metalurgy
Posts: 1506
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:02 pm
Has thanked: 1449 times
Been thanked: 1469 times

I agree with Easy,that is a bold statement and is at odds with Cath’s original question.There are some that believe their machine to be the best,a bit like religion,history tells us it has never always ended well.
User avatar
shaggybfc
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:46 pm
Location: Warwick
Has thanked: 2110 times
Been thanked: 2458 times

Let's put an end to all this debate........it's the XP Deus.... it's the best machine by a country mile, until the XP Deus2 comes out, then it will be that.... end of.... :thumbsup:

Now, if XP are reading this, PM me for my address so you can send me my free Deus 2 :lol: :lol:
Always carefully proof-read what you've typed to see if you've any words out.
Deus with 11" X35 and 9" HF coils. MI 6 pinpointer.
Fisher 1266 X
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:25 pm
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Metalurgy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:37 am I agree with Easy,that is a bold statement and is at odds with Cath’s original question.There are some that believe their machine to be the best,a bit like religion,history tells us it has never always ended well.
Easylife wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:50 am Now that is a very bold statement which could also be very true if no other detector has even ever searched the same ground. So just how often has another detector actually run over the very same ground to clarify your claim? :Thinking:
Perhaps it may appear a bold statement, but we've had people with the machines go over areas we've surveyed 100% and none of the machines picked up on any signals at all.
In a way, I hoped that one of the other machines would have picked up a signal that I could justify buying a different machine.

Don't get me wrong, I don't even think the Déus II can beat the Déus I on depth, even with FMF.

I would get a Déus II just on the strength of being waterproof so I didn't soot myself every time a rain drop appeared :lol:

The proof would be detecting one of our Roman sites and seeing if the grots are detected deeper than they are now.

To be honest, most half decent machines are brilliant but will not detect something that isn't there.
User avatar
Oxgirl
Posts: 12543
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:21 pm
Location: Oxfordshire
Has thanked: 9382 times
Been thanked: 10816 times

Multi frequency machines do find things single frequency can’t. I know that cause I’ve tested a signal that Kevin had - the nox could hear it and the Deus didn’t even squeak. I was with Bob and he was using a different programme and the 13” coil on his Deus and he couldn’t hear it either. It was an unknown, undug target but turned out to be a fibula.

If I liked Roman things I’d have probably bought a Nox :thumbsup: But as I like hammered coins I stuck with the Deus cause it is better for tiny silver. I’m hoping the new machine does both :thumbsup:
Yes I really don’t like Roman coins, I’m not joking
Fisher 1266 X
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:25 pm
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Oxgirl wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:12 pm Multi frequency machines do find things single frequency can’t. I know that cause I’ve tested a signal that Kevin had - the nox could hear it and the Deus didn’t even squeak. I was with Bob and he was using a different programme and the 13” coil on his Deus and he couldn’t hear it either. It was an unknown, undug target but turned out to be a fibula.

If I liked Roman things I’d have probably bought a Nox :thumbsup: But as I like hammered coins I stuck with the Deus cause it is better for tiny silver. I’m hoping the new machine does both :thumbsup:
Cath, thanks for that. It just shows how fickle machines can be.
The test for us would be to go over our regular sites and see if there's a difference as the finds have dropped dramatically.
I must admit, I could do to balance up the finds in the favour of Early/Medieval artifacts especially buckles.
User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 9430
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:47 am
Location: Valhalla
Has thanked: 9561 times
Been thanked: 8446 times

Oxgirl wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:12 pm Multi frequency machines do find things single frequency can’t.
I have often had a deep very iffy target with the Nox in MF that I felt was likely non-ferrous near to iron. But when I've switched to 5khz it just gives an iron response if any response or TID at all. Though the target was actually a deep non-ferrous item!

But under power lines I was using the Nox in 15khz because of the EMI and got a banging target that I thought was very shallow - it was a Mary shilling at about 11" deep. So I guess both single and multi- frequency can have their place. :D
D2 - 13"x11" coil - audio only.
Pete E
Posts: 2698
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:05 pm
Location: North Wales
Has thanked: 3505 times
Been thanked: 2292 times

Easylife wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:46 pm I have often had a deep very iffy target with the Nox in MF that I felt was likely non-ferrous near to iron. But when I've switched to 5khz it just gives an iron response if any response or TID at all. Though the target was actually a deep non-ferrous item!

But under power lines I was using the Nox in 15khz because of the EMI and got a banging target that I thought was very shallow - it was a Mary shilling at about 11" deep. So I guess both single and multi- frequency can have their place. :D
When new machines are announced, the main thing most people seem to want/expect is more depth, but I would happily accept better processing power for better target ID and more accurate discrimination....

I suspect even on well searched land, there are a lot of targets left simply in the first 12" of the ground simply because they give crappy mixed signals to existing machines...
User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 9430
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:47 am
Location: Valhalla
Has thanked: 9561 times
Been thanked: 8446 times

Pete E wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:17 am When new machines are announced, the main thing most people seem to want/expect is more depth, but I would happily accept better processing power for better target ID and more accurate discrimination....
Well for me the Nox does all three. :thumbsup:
Pete E wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:17 am I suspect even on well searched land, there are a lot of targets left simply in the first 12" of the ground simply because they give crappy mixed signals to existing machines...
That is just how my pasture is after several years of detecting it though most of those crappy mixed signals are non-ferrous. It is quite surprising just how many targets are still about though they are very easy to miss if you don't go quite slow. I conclude that it will never be completely done, well I hope not anyway as it's conveniently just down the road. :D
D2 - 13"x11" coil - audio only.
User avatar
DaveP
Posts: 1774
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:40 pm
Location: Spread in England
Has thanked: 663 times
Been thanked: 1940 times

Way back in the third post "That doesn’t answer the question though does it? :D"

To answer the first question: Does there need to be a winner? Well you first need to define how you win. There is no standardised set of comparative tests for detectors, so, at present all bets are off and we can only deal with opinions decorated with the odd fact. When it becomes facts with the odd opinion you may be able to answer the question of which one wins.

The second question: Does there need to be negativity? Obviously no, but there are plenty of excuses for such negativity but few, if any, good reasons. It needs to stop but it needs education and that's a slow business.

I'll add a third. Is negativity perpetuated? Unfortunately yes and occurs when one says "Interestingly it never happens on the women’s only FB group so is this a macho thing like you see in football or something else?"

The glass is either half full, half empty, or maybe it's the wrong size glass.
Post Reply