HE Report on the IoD/AoD

Steve RC
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Its taken a long time for the PAS to get around to producing this long promised video about the C o P. Just in time for the launch of the Treasure Act report and to get the Minister's attention - no surprise there then.

As Oxgirl says it is well produced. and i tend to agree, but why did Westcott appear ? as he added nothing to the overall presentation and where was Mike Heyworth ????

And how did he find the time to write all those pages for Historic England whilst being the leading light in the Time Team !!!Amazing.
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Steve_JT
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figgis wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:33 pm This. 100%

I simply cannot be bothered to read through whatever manipulative drivel is contained in the "report".

Where I was a while ago the subject of Mr Ponzi.....sorry Westcott came up, it was explained he's a very nice chap and needs to be listened too, he's not as bad as he's made out to be :o

Me, known for not holding back and speaking my mind let the person know just what I thought about him and his scheme for self enrichment and the money he conned for a report to promote his agenda, I also said there were many other that felt the same way, I was met with silence and left them with some food for thought as they were not aware that people felt that way, I further said you need to engage with the people that detect on a regular basis so you have both sides of what is being proposed.

Regards Steve
A foolish faith in authority, is the worst enemy of truth." Albert Einstein
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figgis
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Steve_JT wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:07 pm Me, known for not holding back and speaking my mind let the person know just what I thought about him and his scheme for self enrichment and the money he conned for a report to promote his agenda, I also said there were many other that felt the same way, I was met with silence and left them with some food for thought as they were not aware that people felt that way
Have they been living under a rock? The internet (especially social media) is awash with backlash towards this character :shock:

It's worrying that these sort of people (the sort who don't question things and would rather blindly accept them) are grist to his mill. Hellfire, it's not even as if it was a cunningly hidden agenda - it's as plain as the hooter on yer boat!
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Jamesey1981
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I earned myself a ban from a certain other forum for questioning why one of their mods was on the IOD advisory board when the last lot of info came out and everyone was cutting ties desperately, the forum owner swore on his life that none of them were involved, when I sent him the list of people on the board including the mod he banned me.

There's an old story about a scorpion and a frog.....
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.

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jcmaloney
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Talk the right language, speak to the right people and you achieve the required goals.

Even the somewhat negative responses to his survey have been squeezed to reflect a more positive outlook.

Few years down the line landowners will only be allowing "practioners" to detect to comply with ELM schemes and the protection of the historic environment.

Reduced workload for PAS and no more commercial rallies as they aren`t commercially viable.

Maybe its not a bad thing................
I`m Marmite me. Opinionated, obstinate and somewhat tenacious.
Steve RC
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The Agri-environment schemes are undergoing significant changes and as we saw with the original Countryside Stewardship Schemes of the 90's Historic England ( then English Heritage ) provided advice on any archaeological implications. One of these then was to state that no detecting was allowed.

Naturally the NCMD tackled this one and so entered into many meetings with various stakeholders and an avalanche of paperwork to accompany it. And it was never resolved. Within a few years the then CSS was gradually absorbed into the Entry Level and then Higher Level Schemes. All was not well and restrictions within the pilot ELS clearly stated that no detecting was allowed without permission from English Heritage. From then on there was so many more meetings to discuss this along with yet another avalanche of paperwork which the NCMD had to deal with....enough said.

So to move on to the present there is the ever present danger that the Historic England as archaeological advisors to DEFRA/Natural England on the new generation of schemes may be duty bound to show results for the 50K of taxpayers money and insist that only detectorists who hold the required accreditation from the I o D will be considered for access should the landowner agree. However once the landowner is being paid for options under the new Environmental Land Management Schemes they too are duty bound to follow the rules or be fined for non compliance.

As you say detecting rallies which have caused so much angst within the archaeological fraternity, will be a thing of the past and detecting controlled in an I o D friendly way on whatever percentage of the England and Wales farmland goes under the ELMS which from comments elsewhere is going to be most of it otherwise farmers and landowners wont survive the eventual withdrawal of subsidies.

That scenario will of course make Mr Westcott a very rich man through his awarding himself a generous market rate salary befitting the CEO of such a prestigious organisation and of course the administration fees and expenses. Nice little earner !!!
Blackadder43
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Steve RC wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:41 am The Agri-environment schemes are undergoing significant changes and as we saw with the original Countryside Stewardship Schemes of the 90's Historic England ( then English Heritage ) provided advice on any archaeological implications. One of these then was to state that no detecting was allowed.!
I havent quoted your whole post so as not to make a wall of text
But
This is what some people struggle to understand about this iod venture
Its a trojan horse
Whether Mr westcott believes that or not is not the issue
If allowed, things will start of slowly and swimmingly
Then the real work from HE will start and they will be in a strong enough position to stop all detecting (through rules given to farmers) unless they are trained through the iod
Training will be restricted through numbers so as to have just a small element of folk allowed to detect
Detecting as a hobby will cease to exist, not directly through mr westcott, but through him allowing the trojan horse to be born

This will drive detecting underground, night hawking will take off, literally
CEO or not, there will be nothing Mr westcott could do about it

I predicted this 3 years ago on another forum and was told by some that i was mentally unstable and a nay sayer!
Steve RC
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Yes you are correct in your appraisal of the situation and we both think along the same lines as we did on another Forum.

Whilst the IoD may well feel it is simply providing a service for that cohort of detectorists who see themselves as amateur archaeologists, it is also being viewed by the establishment as a means to provide a more comprehensive restriction and control measures than could ever be done before under the previous generations of agri-environment schemes reducing both the ease of access and more importantly numbers granted access.

The expected take up of the new ELM's is predicted to be high as current subsidies to replace the former EU grants are phased out and so most landowners will in many ways forced to join the ELM's to survive. To append new terms and condtions for metal detecting access to the ELM's is easy to do. For example in the many years of dealing with Natural England who administered the former ELS/HLS, the NCMD rep noticed that the "goal posts" were moved with some frequency as were claims that only so much land would be under such schemes.

Sadly the NCMD had to stand back from dealing with these schemes when the person who dealt with them for many years stood down and a replacement was not found. This is of concern.
jcmaloney
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The perfect storm is coming...........

Treasure Act review
NCMD infighting and structural weakness
IoD publishing and talking to HE/NE et al
ELM Schemes rolling out.
Reams of social media "cash groups".
PAS equally restricted and struggling to cope

Not looking too bright...
I`m Marmite me. Opinionated, obstinate and somewhat tenacious.
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