Detecting Code

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DaveP
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figgis
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Blimey, there are some big hitters in there and what pleases me most about that is that they're all highly respected and none of them are saying, "Metal detecting should be banned!" :thumbsup:

Thanks for that, Dave
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shaggybfc
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Why didn’t the NCMD get involved in this communication - did they not get asked, preferring the IOD?
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Steve RC
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Interesting point as the NCMD is a stakeholder on the Portable Antiquities Advisory Group and the Best Practice Working Group.

Perhaps the choice of participants was down To Dr Lewis who is a great supporter of the I o D. Some observors could say that the many years of NCMD membership of the two groups has been a waste of time. Shame all the effort that was put into participation, but then again the NCMD chose not to endorse the Code of Practice for very good reasons all of which were outlined in detail in an issue of Digging Deep so that may be the real reason for no invite.

To my mind the aim of an advisory group is to provide comment good or bad to the overall group discussions for it to make decisions. For the main representative body of the hobby to express concern over how the Code was written in its final draft and what had been omitted speaks volumes. This alone should have led to further discussions to negotiate a way forward. Sorry that could not be done as there were political gains to be made in its publication by a certian date so it was a case of endorse it by #### of else.

The NCMD had to be free to engage in discussions and express its opinions and concerns without a gun to its head for the common good otherwise what is the point of engagment in the first place.
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Oxgirl
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shaggybfc wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:32 pm Why didn’t the NCMD get involved in this communication - did they not get asked, preferring the IOD?
The NCMD were consulted at scripting stage, over a year ago, which was all agreed. Then they decided to involve the A of D in the filming, including including footage directing the audience to the A of D website. Feedback on that decision was provided and some changes were made. However, as the AofD was suddenly co-funding it (at the last minute) and the NCMD had already produced it’s own responsible detecting video, the decision was made not to endorse it.

Hard to know what is the right decision in these circumstances but endorsing an AofD funded video wasn’t something that made sense to the NCMD despite the support it provided to PAS on the development. It is a quality production and personally I hope it gets the message across :thumbsup:
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The PAS are always looking for money and that can be a weakness at times. In this case the AoD of whatever it is going to be called saw an opportunity and used it. However i consider the NCMD production to be far more user friendly and was produced at a fraction of the cost no doubt.

Now i recall this same gentleman was involved in the resurrection of the Time Team of which he is now a leading light. It seems that money talks.

Perhaps he will be seeking to out bid the NCMD next on the provision of funding for the excavation of findspots...mmm
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I see from a third party that the NCMD has now chosen to endorse the Code. I presume it had been modified in some way to avoid it being used as a hammer to beat the hobby with otherwise it still contains the wording problems and interpretations that were the issue in the first place.

However be aware that the NCMD spent about 18months in negotiations and discussions through the Portable Antiquities Advisory Group with stakeholders, removing or modifiying various unattainable strictures and wish list points the archaeological establishment wished to see included. The final draft was close to endorsement when politically inspired cut off dates for doing so were introduced seeking to bounce the NCMD into endorsement without careful consideration of a few minor problems. It is never wise to make decisions that would affect the hobby in so many ways under duress.

To be clear the NCMD never rejected the Code as some parties like to suggest and infact nearly all the document was fine. It needed fine tuning and tweeking to make it workable for the hobby as well seeking to satisfy the various concerns and issues about detecting from the archaeological establishment. It could have been done with a little more time.

Now it would seem that a unilateral decision has been made to endorse the Code without discussion by the NCMD Executive Committee and i as an NCMD member find out what has happened via a tweet by one of the former PAAG stakeholders. This is a dreadful way to deal with such an important issue for the hobby and lends weight to the charges recently made by some that the NCMD Executive are making significant changes without consultation.

Whilst on this topic the NCMD is still intent on keeping its members that dont use Facebook in the dark on anything it is doing. I once believed that this Forum was going to be used to disseminate information on what the NCMD was up to. Sadly it seems that it is not the case.

I presume the NCMD Executive also intends to roll over on the Treasure Act Review issues of concern though i wait to be advised on this one - or will it be silence ?.
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Ever noticed how the politics of sport and hobbies exactly reflects the prevailing Politics of the day ?
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Saffron
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Steve RC wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:32 pm <Cut>

Whilst on this topic the NCMD is still intent on keeping its members that dont use Facebook in the dark on anything it is doing. I once believed that this Forum was going to be used to disseminate information on what the NCMD was up to. Sadly it seems that it is not the case.
<Cut>
From what I saw the other day I understand that the NCMD FB page has been removed, and I certainly can not now see it.

I totally agree its a shame TheNCMD user has not posted on here since 3rd of March.

So it looks as if the ONLY way they disseminate information now is on the the web page https://www.ncmd.co.uk/ and the only news item on there since September is the Christmas draw results (I appear not to have won).
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Steve RC
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Yes it seems that NCMD members are going to be left in the dark as to what it is up to. Meetings are held every 4 months and then minutes are issued some time afterwards. However what goes on in between seems to be anybodies guess.

As an Individual Member i have no representative ( Delegate) i can contact or knowledge of what is going on unless updates are posted on the NCMD section on the Forum.

Not really good enough, but perhaps the NCMD has had its day. Insurance is the main driver of its membership and now there are a number of organisations providing insurance at a much lower fee so that alone will bleed away their membership. It will be interesting to see what the membership numbers are after renewals next year.
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Oxgirl
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For god sake give them a break. The new website is out this month and hopefully it’ll give them the direct contact with members we all have been demanding. I am no longer an officer but I fought for this website and set the ball rolling on getting it done because I’m also an independent member and I passionately believe every member should have a say in what goes on. Also I wouldn't have closed the Facebook page whilst it is being revamped, as they have, but that doesn’t mean I am right.

If the website doesn’t deliver you can be assured I’ll be more critical than anyone else. It has to allow the membership to be better updated and know and be able to vote on critical topics. But give them the chance to get it out there before any of us slam them.

I’ll go stick my head in the freezer now and calm down. The constant griping needs dialling back a bit - or targeted at the right people in the NCMD. no point moaning here!
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Steve RC
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I dont intend to "slam them" all the time, but it seems that the ideals of a previous administration to tell members who are not social media users via this Forum, what is going on has gone astray. It was meant to be a place where discussions could take place for the benefit of all rather than individual emails to Officers in isolation.

Surely one of the new cohort of Officers could do that to keep members up to date on issues with a simple summary of what was discussed at an OGM for example. No need to stick your head in the freezer on this one.
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This subject is a hot potato for some and certain people get more excited than others.I happen to agree with Steve,that it would have been easier to keep the face ache page open,because by closing it,it only adds to a drama,which right now,isn’t needed or wanted.
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Oxgirl
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Metalurgy wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:14 am This subject is a hot potato for some and certain people get more excited than others.I happen to agree with Steve,that it would have been easier to keep the face ache page open,because by closing it,it only adds to a drama,which right now,isn’t needed or wanted.
I agree with that. Don’t understand the reasoning for removing public viewing. It still exists I believe, just not publicly.
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Littleboot
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Oxgirl wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:36 am I agree with that. Don’t understand the reasoning for removing public viewing. It still exists I believe, just not publicly.
And there we have the nub of it. (Full disclosure: For obvious reasons I am no longer a member but I am an interested observer with no real axe to grind.) My observation earlier about how politics of everything tends to follow the 'lead' (and I use that term extremely loosely) of Politics and power with a big 'P' What I can say is that many people are feeling dis-empowered enough already. They are frustrated that their voices are not heard. Their representatives both locally and nationally don't listen, let alone respond, to their queries and concerns. The 'powers-that-be' -aka vested interests -are currently playing fast and loose with our freedoms and individual views because they see themselves as experts and don't want to bother being answerable to the Great Unwashed. Let alone have to concern themselves with how this all affects the little lives of the small fry.
This lack of communication comes from the same place and, especially in a sphere of activity which has been blighted by division and elitism for so long. (It is always there. Sometimes the veneer hiding it is thicker than at others but basically the establishment wavers between seeing public contributions as a necessary, or unnecessary, evil) it is going to feed into the wariness and paranoia. Keep members informed. Even if it is to simply tell them that there is a hiatus for a while. It really isn't that hard to communicate in this day and age. Because not doing so is seen as the NCMD not valuing their membership, and then people go ahead and start to ask why that is and to what end.
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