Some sort of brass pendant?

Beckybue
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Pete E wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:59 am The chances of finding the chain are slim, but it's worth thinking about....I am not sure which detector you have, but have a read of the thread about the Equinox and Gold as the same things apply to most detectors.

I found part of a gold watch chain a couple of years back, and I still check the general vicinity when ever I go in that particular field...I have found several bits of a non gold pocket watch very close by, but not the other bit of chain yet but hope springs eternal!
Hi Pete, I’ve crawled all over it and there are no stamps on it. I did the gold density test on it, as recommended by Jamesey, and it comes out as between 7.00 and 7.29 after multiple tests (off the charts low) so I am still none the wiser.
Thanks also for the tips regarding the chain. I have a Nox 600 so no fancy gold settings associated with the 800, but I am tortoise style crawling all over that field anyway on max sensitivity and digging anything that produces a vague signal, so am hoping if there’s a chain there somewhere, I’ll find it. It encourages me to hear you’ve found a part of a watch chain!
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Jamesey1981 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:35 pm No worries.

This is actually a pretty useful technique, a plated item will pass an acid test for gold unless you rub enough off to go through the plating, and a rolled gold item certainly will, but neither will pass a density test.
I may be being a complete imbecile but the (numerous) density tests I did following that formula resulted in a 7.00 result, ie off the chart low for any metal! Weight of item 7.29, weight when displaced in water 1.04., which seems extremely light but I re did it several times (unless I’m suspending the item wrong?) . No idea 😂
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Beckybue wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:24 pm (unless I’m suspending the item wrong?) . No idea 😂
It's a while since I did a density test but I think the item needs to be suspended from say a cocktail stick resting across the rim of the water container rather than you holding it. :thumbsup:
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Beckybue
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DaveP wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:55 am Becky,

can you post a picture of the reverse please (with the scale). The two domes might upset the result of a density test and it would be good to know if the water can get inside or not. If they are 'closed' but not solid then it isn't too difficult to estimate the effect if you post your test numbers.

Chris
Thank you for the info Chris, it’s much appreciated. The density test scale indicates it’s worse grade than foil, despite several tests. But maybe you’re right, and it’s the construction of the pendant that is upsetting the reading? The two domes are hollow on the reverse so can’t fill with water and add artificial weight to it (if that’s what you meant). I’ve scraped one edge, it’s definitely not plated, but it feels ‘crappy’ for want of a better description! Thank again for your input and help.
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Beckybue wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:37 pm I’ve scraped one edge, it’s definitely not plated, but it feels ‘crappy’ for want of a better description!
Well your 'crappy' pendant might be worth £250 scrap? :thumbsup:
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Beckybue wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:17 pm Thanks also for the tips regarding the chain. I have a Nox 600 so no fancy gold settings associated with the 800, but I am tortoise style crawling all over that field anyway on max sensitivity and digging anything that produces a vague signal, so am hoping if there’s a chain there somewhere, I’ll find it. It encourages me to hear you’ve found a part of a watch chain!
Becky, You don't need the fancy gold mode to find gold...the 800's gold is more for prospecting for "natural" gold where as Field 1 or Field 2 on either detector will find gold jewellery just fine as long as you dig the low numbers...
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Just run it in, see what they offer, they'll soon tell ya if it's crap or not. :thumbsup:
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Beckybue wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:24 pm I may be being a complete imbecile but the (numerous) density tests I did following that formula resulted in a 7.00 result, ie off the chart low for any metal! Weight of item 7.29, weight when displaced in water 1.04., which seems extremely light but I re did it several times (unless I’m suspending the item wrong?) . No idea 😂
That would be low even for brass, I reckon as DaveP mentioned that there's something hollow.

If there's something hollow that the water can't get into then it's adding volume to the item, but not weight which will mess up a density test as the measured volume is larger than it should be.

Best bet is to get a jeweller to test it if that's the case, if it doesn't look plated then you still have a chance of it being gold.

You could also get yourself a testing kit, I have a set of acids for gold and silver as I like to buy scrap gold and silver as an investment, they're not expensive but they do need pretty careful handling, you really don't want to get acids that can dissolve gold in your eye.
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Easylife wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:54 pm Well your 'crappy' pendant might be worth £250 scrap? :thumbsup:
😮😂
I have no idea how to even get it graded or valued, but I shall endeavour to find out and let you know, if you’d like (I’m guessing I’ll be offered £20 for it …!)
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Pete E wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:56 pm Becky, You don't need the fancy gold mode to find gold...the 800's gold is more for prospecting for "natural" gold where as Field 1 or Field 2 on either detector will find gold jewellery just fine as long as you dig the low numbers...
Thank you for the advice. Will let you know if I have any joy with the chain 👍🏻
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So how did you suspend the item for your metal density test Becky? I think the item needs to be suspended from say a cocktail stick resting across the rim of the water container rather than you holding it. :thumbsup:
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Jamesey1981
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Easylife wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:51 pm So how did you suspend the item for your metal density test Becky? I think the item needs to be suspended from say a cocktail stick resting across the rim of the water container rather than you holding it. :thumbsup:
If you do that you will be weighing the item, the string and the cocktail stick, not the displaced water.

You need to either hold it, or suspend it from something that isn't on the scales.

This works via archimedes principle, and for it to work you need to be holding the weight of the item, then you are weighing the displaced water which gives you your volume.

I do it freehand without a problem, but you need quite steady hands.
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Allectus wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:59 pm Just run it in, see what they offer, they'll soon tell ya if it's crap or not. :thumbsup:
Completely agree...

But don't go there and say "Is this crap?" just take it in and tell them it's Asian 20ct weighs 7.1 grams and ask them what is worth...

If the dealer is in anyway reputable he will do a gold acid test Infront of you....At this point they could say it's 9ct or 14ct or some other grade rather than 20ct, and give you a scrape value....

Just from looking at it, I would be very very surprised if it as not gold of some grade or other....
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Beckybue wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:37 pm Thank you for the info Chris, it’s much appreciated. The density test scale indicates it’s worse grade than foil, despite several tests. But maybe you’re right, and it’s the construction of the pendant that is upsetting the reading? The two domes are hollow on the reverse so can’t fill with water and add artificial weight to it (if that’s what you meant). I’ve scraped one edge, it’s definitely not plated, but it feels ‘crappy’ for want of a better description! Thank again for your input and help.
Hmmm. something isn't right or it isn't solid gold. You say they are hollow on the reverse but can't fill with water. If they are hollow they will fill - which would be good. Have I understood you correctly?
The density test works by measuring the volume of displaced water. As 1cm3 of water weighs very nearly a gram it gives a reasonably accurate way of turning volume into mass for the calculation of Density =mass/volume.
The reason the domes are important is if they can't fill with water they occupy volume with air. They are, in effect, a bubble. So a sphere of solid gold and a hollow sphere of gold occupy the same volume but have a very different mass and would lead to two different density results - still with me.

You have to make sure the pendant is under the water but doesn't touch the bottom of the container when you take the weight in water. (Edit) Just hold the cotton and as your hand isn't on the scales it has no effect on the reading. You don't need to weigh the cotton as it displaces so little water.

From your pictures, and assuming the domes are hollow but don't fill with water, then they alone should account for ~ 0.9g of displacement.
The number you have so far is light for brass (much too light for solid gold) but is in the region of tin or some alloys.

Chris
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DaveP wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:30 pm It can be suspended from a cocktail stick as long as that stick was added to the tare weight first i.e. with the cup and water.
Agree with most of your post apart from this bit.

You can't suspend the item from ANYTHING that's on the scales, otherwise you are just weighing the item.

If you suspend the item from a cocktail stick and then put that cocktail stick on the cup you have just added the weight of the item to the cup.

This method works because you are supporting most of the mass of the item which is much denser than water off the scales, then you are getting the weight of the displaced water, not the weight of the item, if you are supporting the mass of the item with something that is on the scales your reading will be the same as if you just dump the item, the cup, the water, the string and the cocktail stick on the scales and don't bother suspending it. It would also give the same incorrect reading if the item is touching the bottom of the cup as you mentioned.
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