What will happen to your collection

User avatar
DaveP
Posts: 1774
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:40 pm
Location: Spread in England
Has thanked: 663 times
Been thanked: 1940 times

I wonder if the NCMD are proactively involved in this?

https://ajdaubney.com/2021/12/02/the-af ... llections/

It's sure to get a few backs up but really shouldn't, unless it's badly handled.
Metalurgy
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:02 pm
Has thanked: 1448 times
Been thanked: 1468 times

As I understand it,the heritage sector is underfunded and unable to cope with every day archaeological finds ,let alone detectorists finds,unless they are significant.
Apparently the archives are full,only 1% of finds are ever displayed in museums,so I believe they’d have a bit of a problem trying to implement that idea.
User avatar
Charles Abbeyville
Posts: 880
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 5:02 pm
Location: N Lincolnshire
Has thanked: 473 times
Been thanked: 828 times

This has so many 'tentacles'. While I would like to see all finds at least photographed and properly recorded, what happens to them when they do get into museums! An amazing number of finds get 'lost' while in the museum's hands. An amazing number of coins from hoards go missing, one minute there's a hoard there of 10.000 coins, next minute there's only 2000 left, if that.
The same applies to artefacts, one minute there's a collection of valuable old firearms, the next minute that collection has been replaced by other guns of little interest and no one knows what happened to those original valuable guns. The gun story was told to me by the guy who donated the guns and went back to the museum some years later so he knew what he was talking about. I imagine he will no longer be with us to read this.

And then there are some archaeologists, well one in particular at least who are very underhand and for example visit detector clubs, get friendly with a particular detectorist because he is finding very interesting stuff and the next thing, that archaeologist has sent 'his lady friend' onto that site with a detector and the farmer receives an official letter to encourage him to stop the club detectorist detecting on there!
One detectorist I know of died and he had a fabulous collection of Saxon brooches (recorded with PAS) including of course some broken ones. How come that archaeologist (who got himself involved) handed the museum only the broken brooches and when asked about the complete ones said there weren't any!
Many of you will already recognise the above but if you doubt it just check the records and see how many are 'now missing'.
I say good luck to Adam Daubney, I really hope he can start a scheme of some kind that can tackle this whole situation so that all finds can be recorded and archaeologists will work properly with us because at the moment I feel we are seen as the enemy.
User avatar
Littleboot
Posts: 752
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:49 pm
Location: Normandy.
Has thanked: 1060 times
Been thanked: 1110 times

This reminds me of back in the day when I was studying at Art College and the famous 'Institute' next door housed the victorian library and also had housed a museum. It was an area where there had been many wealthy benefactors and also a lot of antiquarian activity. Only a few scattered exhibits remained...there was an ancient cinerary urn gathering dust in an alcove or the library. Nothing was catalogued anymore. The senior art lecturer, a well known gallery owner and artist, was extremely bitter about it and told us how the collection had been scattered and hived off. He knew that it was the establishment at that institution who were responsible for the objects disappearing.
I remember going to a famous Roman site a few years ago. It had a small museum. I remember talking to the guy who was manning the shop/ museum and talking about how cool it would be to detect but of course it was important to protect sites. He surprised me by launching into a bitter condemnation of the way the finds were audited (or not). and said lots of stuff simply disappeared all the time.
I have a very bitter view about authority based on some life experiences. It can be summed up with the phrase: rules for thee but not for me. In other words...it's Ok if they do it. Heaven forbid that any of the great unwashed should ever get their hands on their own history.
"The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe, for the axe was clever and convinced the trees that because his handle was made of wood he was one of them."
Metalurgy
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:02 pm
Has thanked: 1448 times
Been thanked: 1468 times

Sadly,I too am aware of a couple of local museums where artefacts and finds have gone missing,in one case it was local councillors,so unfortunately it would appear that this problem is fairly widespread.
I will probably leave my finds to my daughter who’s an archaeologist and regards me as a grave robber :lol: .
Steve RC
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:20 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 453 times

I have not heard the name Charles Abbeyville for some time. Several articles in the hobby press i believe.

Anyway this is probably Adam's way of looking to get a commission as a private archaeological consultant to look into this situation and of course the money as well.

It is nothing new ,but as others have pointed out museums are always cash strapped and the main aim would be to entice inheritors of a collection be is one put together as a metal detectorist or as a collector, to consider donation for the greater good etc etc. As Charles has kindly pointed out items do tend to go astray in some situation and i have heard a few tales myself which naturally cant be proved as the wall of silence comes up to protect those in the know. This is where a good investigative reporter would come in useful willing to dig that bit deeper for the story.

This desire to find out what will happen to detector found collection is nothing new and i clearly recall a meeting between archaeologists and detectorists in the early 90' looking to establish meaningful liaison between the two parties on the recording of finds and the helping with joint archaeological projects in one county long before the PAS was established. After a number of meetings a question was raised by a museum representative asking the detectorists present what will happen to their collections and that the museum would be interested...mmm

Recorded PAS finds have also been looked at by certain museums who have flagged up items they desire for their collections. Approaches were i understand made to the finders to see if they would donate them to the museum. Not sure what happened to that idea ,but the NCMD were aware of it so they may have answers.
User avatar
Charles Abbeyville
Posts: 880
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 5:02 pm
Location: N Lincolnshire
Has thanked: 473 times
Been thanked: 828 times

The plot sickens. :(
User avatar
Kenleyboy
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:08 pm
Has thanked: 2088 times
Been thanked: 1747 times

Well my collection of stoneware bottles is going down as hardcore for my Sons drive when I pop my clogs :lol:

Only recently a good friend of mine put forward some nice finds with his FLO and which were then stored at a museum for further investigation . They went "missing" supposedly while in transit to be returned . Conveniently there were a number of hands the items went through making the trail even more complicated and harder to follow . After threatening with court action etc the items mysteriously turned up on his doorstep late one night , this had gone on for well over a year !

I think there is plenty of skullduggery in both camps , Metal detecting and Archaeology .You have only got to trawl through the archives to see the many metal detecting underhand activities going on with some perpetrators even going to Prison . A great many artifacts and coins simply disappear no doubt into many private collections around the World . While on the subject , some Archaelogists are not any better and some of their behaviour needs to be scrutinised . One of my closest friends is an ex Archaelogist and some of the tales leave much to be desired .
Like I say , good and a minority of bad in both camps and will any of these "collections" ever come to light that have been oiked out the back door , I doubt that very much , too much of the Old Boys Club .
User avatar
Littleboot
Posts: 752
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:49 pm
Location: Normandy.
Has thanked: 1060 times
Been thanked: 1110 times

I am sure there is lots of skullduggery in both camps, KB. But the salient difference seems to the alacrity with which the book is thrown at one camp but not the other.
"The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe, for the axe was clever and convinced the trees that because his handle was made of wood he was one of them."
User avatar
Kenleyboy
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:08 pm
Has thanked: 2088 times
Been thanked: 1747 times

Littleboot wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:54 pm I am sure there is lots of skullduggery in both camps, KB. But the salient difference seems to the alacrity with which the book is thrown at one camp but not the other.
Totally agree :thumbsup:
User avatar
figgis
Posts: 6915
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:21 pm
Location: Norfolk (just)
Has thanked: 3996 times
Been thanked: 4665 times

The basic question (what will happen to your finds) is a very good one and on the face of it a simple one, but as the posts above testify, there's more to it than that.

Mutual distrust issues aside, what we find is generally of little archaeological significance and recording on the PAS database is our not insignificant contribution and when I pop off I'd like my family to enjoy the mass of bent coppers, grots and attributable detritus I'm famous for finding. But should a museum show interest I'd be happy for them to donate/lend.

But then, aside from a couple of hammereds, there's no monetary value involved so I can afford to be generous :lol:
Reiver
Posts: 733
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:53 pm
Has thanked: 920 times
Been thanked: 737 times

Sorry haven't been on for a while , just got power ,phone, and internet connection back after storm Arwen.

A really interesting thread , and very much food for deep thought. :roll:
Dave The Slave
Posts: 3471
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:36 pm
Has thanked: 10859 times
Been thanked: 3751 times

Well i was thinking, i don`t really have a collection as such, however i should make sure that relics don`t get dumped as just an old coin for instance.
Not really found much that has any financial value, from what i have seen £40 for a Denarius, have a couple of those.
Saxon Button Brooch ??
Saxon Saucer Brooch ??
Couple of rare Napoleonic era Militia buttons that might go for £20 each.
Apart from the above nothing worth double figures.
Depending how destitute i get once i retire, 112 more pay days :Party: , will pass anything left, onto my youngest son who has been out detecting with me, to sort out. Will label as much stuff as possible.
I do believe the Museums hold too many artefacts that never see the light of day, as i now know to my own cost.
Cheers, :thumbsup:
Dave.
Pete E
Posts: 2696
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:05 pm
Location: North Wales
Has thanked: 3499 times
Been thanked: 2284 times

I think the main thing I get from this thread is the need to photograph & catalogue any important finds including any PAS number, Treasure case number, the location and other similar data, plus a suggestion of its possible financial worth at the present date.

Depending on the type of find, you could also include details of reputable dealers or auction houses where a loved one may get an up to date valuation/price estimate should they need it..

If on the other hand it's your wish to donate certain finds to local museums, again that could be recorded on a find by find basis as part of this cataloguing process...

This way, if a loved one is approached by a museum or dealer in the future, or should they wish to sell certain items, they have all the info at hand to make an informed decision....
Dave The Slave
Posts: 3471
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:36 pm
Has thanked: 10859 times
Been thanked: 3751 times

Pete E wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:36 pm I think the main thing I get from this thread is the need to photograph & catalogue any important finds including any PAS number, Treasure case number, the location and other similar data, plus a suggestion of its possible financial worth at the present date.

Depending on the type of find, you could also include details of reputable dealers or auction houses where a loved one may get an up to date valuation/price estimate should they need it..

If on the other hand it's your wish to donate certain finds to local museums, again that could be recorded on a find by find basis as part of this cataloguing process...

This way, if a loved one is approached by a museum or dealer in the future, or should they wish to sell certain items, they have all the info at hand to make an informed decision....
Spot on, Pete :thumbsup:
Post Reply