Arrowhead

mattjb
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Just an update on the arrowhead I found on Sunday as Bruce has asked if I post some info on it in the new Lithics section!
Chris (DaveP) kindly offered to look into which type it could be and after sending him some more pics he tells me it’s a Sutton B type arrowhead dating late Neolithic/early Bronze Age. He also took a look at some other bits of flint I’d picked up over time which was really helpful as now I know a bit more about what to look for and what is likely to be a tool rather than natural.
I find the subject fascinating and am looking forward to hopefully finding more lithics!
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figgis
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Well done on a great find :thumbsup:

It always amazes me that the tangs on these survive. They look so delicate but are probably more robust than they look
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Littleboot
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What an amazing thing. Delicate, durable, and deadly all at the same time. The tang arrow is such a classic shape isn't it? So evocative. It also begs the question of what it has hunted and killed. It could well be, of course, that it was not dropped, or discarded, or any of that 'ritual deposit' explanation so beloved of archie. :roll: It may have been buried in some flesh and where the animal (or man :shock: ) eventually died. I imagine a lot of animals were wounded and not killed and ran away and died later. It happens even today with hunting. We had a dead boar in our meadow which had clearly been wounded by hunters and escaped only to die later.
The Iceman had a similar arrow stuck in him when he died.
"The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe, for the axe was clever and convinced the trees that because his handle was made of wood he was one of them."
mattjb
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Littleboot wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:36 am What an amazing thing. Delicate, durable, and deadly all at the same time. The tang arrow is such a classic shape isn't it? So evocative. It also begs the question of what it has hunted and killed. It could well be, of course, that it was not dropped, or discarded, or any of that 'ritual deposit' explanation so beloved of archie. :roll: It may have been buried in some flesh and where the animal (or man :shock: ) eventually died. I imagine a lot of animals were wounded and not killed and ran away and died later. It happens even today with hunting. We had a dead boar in our meadow which had clearly been wounded by hunters and escaped only to die later.
The Iceman had a similar arrow stuck in him when he died.
I don’t know how it survived as well as it has in a field that is very stoney , especially as it’s been ploughed and ran over by tractors god knows how many times!
It was laying flat on the surface between the stubble and really stood out. I was so surprised to see it I swore loudly! Luckily no one else was around!
As you say,these pieces fire your imagination in so many ways!
When I show pics of my finds to non detectorists often the first thing they say is “what’s it worth?” ,they think totally differently to the way the majority of us do! What something is worth is the last thing I’m thinking, like you I’d be thinking how was it made, who was person who had this last , what was their world like at the time etc?
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Littleboot
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mattjb wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:01 am When I show pics of my finds to non detectorists often the first thing they say is “what’s it worth?” ,they think totally differently to the way the majority of us do! What something is worth is the last thing I’m thinking, like you I’d be thinking how was it made, who was person who had this last , what was their world like at the time etc?
Oh I so agree with this. I have been sooo disappointed in some of the non-detectorists who occasionally look at my finds. The what is it worth thing is so to the fore. And they have little to know appreciation of anything that isn't made of precious metals. Some of my very favourite finds are not in the least bit valuable (at least not obviously so) and people often just look unimpressed when they see them and have no imagination. It annoys me that detectorists are seen as philistines in many official circles. Because I know that is not an accurate assumption. But yes, showing some of my finds is very useful in terms of seeing a person's character and values. If they don't like my neolithic axe, have no interest in it other than its monetary value, then I don't see much point in furthering our acquaintance beyond the basic level of courtesy.
"The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe, for the axe was clever and convinced the trees that because his handle was made of wood he was one of them."
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Littleboot wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:25 am If they don't like my neolithic axe, have no interest in it other than its monetary value, then I don't see much point in furthering our acquaintance beyond the basic level of courtesy.
I so love this :ugeek:

I have yet to find anything related to worked stone/flint, probably walked past it and not known
But finding one of these is top of that wish list

Hopefully as this forum fills up with your finds then i can learn more on what i'm looking out for :thumbsup:
mattjb
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Littleboot wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:25 am Oh I so agree with this. I have been sooo disappointed in some of the non-detectorists who occasionally look at my finds. The what is it worth thing is so to the fore. And they have little to know appreciation of anything that isn't made of precious metals. Some of my very favourite finds are not in the least bit valuable (at least not obviously so) and people often just look unimpressed when they see them and have no imagination. It annoys me that detectorists are seen as philistines in many official circles. Because I know that is not an accurate assumption. But yes, showing some of my finds is very useful in terms of seeing a person's character and values. If they don't like my neolithic axe, have no interest in it other than its monetary value, then I don't see much point in furthering our acquaintance beyond the basic level of courtesy.
Brilliant! Love that last bit! :thumbsup: :clapping:
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Kenleyboy
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Dave P is your man for "lithics " and fossils , he has helped me out with a few items over the last year . Very helpful and knowledgeable on a subject that is fascinating . Every now and again we get lucky and stumble across a flint tool or arrowhead , the latter being one which has evaded me so far but I live in hope . A couple of items I have found have both come from one area so I am sure depending on the plough each year , it may well bring a one or more pieces up with it . Finding something like the arrowhead etc opens up a new world of interest even to a point of now watching some you tube channels on flint knapping , highly skilled craft .
Great find :thumbsup:
mattjb
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Kenleyboy wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:45 am Dave P is your man for "lithics " and fossils , he has helped me out with a few items over the last year . Very helpful and knowledgeable on a subject that is fascinating . Every now and again we get lucky and stumble across a flint tool or arrowhead , the latter being one which has evaded me so far but I live in hope . A couple of items I have found have both come from one area so I am sure depending on the plough each year , it may well bring a one or more pieces up with it . Finding something like the arrowhead etc opens up a new world of interest even to a point of now watching some you tube channels on flint knapping , highly skilled craft .
Great find :thumbsup:
Cheers,
As I'm on day 4 of being isolated in my covid pit of despair with nothing to do,I've been doing just that!
I've watched the two spud ones that Chris posted up plus a knapping one by the same chap which were all very interesting.This morning I've been watching some by Will Lord including a great one where he makes an arrowhead very similar to mine in 19 minutes.Really surprising that they can be made so quickly! Another one where he makes a Neolithic longbow with Flint tools is also very good as it shows the tools in action.Theres plenty of others on his channel that show more about prehistoric life. Worth a watch if you haven't seen them.
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Bigtim1973
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That is a great find. Did you find this in the UK?

I always wondered if there were flint points to be had over there.

We have them all over here. They try to say they are all Native American made.

I know a lot of them made them but I personally doubt that they all were made by them being up on the history of our land.

A lot of them are found in and along streams.


One cache found here where I live had points 30" long.

I have some pics of them if I can run across them I will share.
I use the XP ORX and XP Deus Metal Detectors.
mattjb
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Bigtim1973 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:40 am That is a great find. Did you find this in the UK?

I always wondered if there were flint points to be had over there.

We have them all over here. They try to say they are all Native American made.

I know a lot of them made them but I personally doubt that they all were made by them being up on the history of our land.

A lot of them are found in and along streams.


One cache found here where I live had points 30" long.

I have some pics of them if I can run across them I will share.
Yes Tim , found in the uk . Arrowheads aren’t common finds here though but I’ve picked up other pieces of worked flint on this permission and the other arable permission I’ve got access to.
I try and keep a look out for flint as much as possible when I’m detecting in the hope of finding more.
Ironage
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Very nice :thumbsup:
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DaveP
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Bigtim1973 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:40 am That is a great find. Did you find this in the UK?

We have them all over here. They try to say they are all Native American made.
I know there's 'strong' debate about the Clovis people and a possible pre-Clovis lot being the first inhabitants of the Americas some 12,000 years ago but what time period do Native Americans class as the Native American beginning?
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Bigtim1973
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DaveP wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:56 am I know there's 'strong' debate about the Clovis people and a possible pre-Clovis lot being the first inhabitants of the Americas some 12,000 years ago but what time period do Native Americans class as the Native American beginning?

I am not up to par on the time frame stuff....but if you get a book called America BC by Barry Fell it goes into some details about people that were not of Asian descent which the Native Americans are that were here before them.

There are structures here that has what is called finger writing on them and aslo the same thing has been found in Ireland.

Plus there are tombs that have been discovered in farm fields that have tall individuals wearing copper armour.


This would not be out into text books because it just doesn't line up with the Columbus was the first person who discovered America narrative.


Not Saying Columbus didn't do a fantastic thing but......the people who study this topic say Columbus re discovered America!!
I use the XP ORX and XP Deus Metal Detectors.
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Bigtim1973 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:13 pm I am not up to par on the time frame stuff....but if you get a book called America BC by Barry Fell it goes into some details about people that were not of Asian descent which the Native Americans are that were here before them.

There are structures here that has what is called finger writing on them and aslo the same thing has been found in Ireland.

Plus there are tombs that have been discovered in farm fields that have tall individuals wearing copper armour.


This would not be out into text books because it just doesn't line up with the Columbus was the first person who discovered America narrative.


Not Saying Columbus didn't do a fantastic thing but......the people who study this topic say Columbus re discovered America!!
I think some of the Native Americans also get the hump when it's suggested there were other people's, possibly "whites", who reached America before them...

Also I think it's fairly conclusive that Viking discovered and settled in Nova Scotia well before Columbus reached the Americas so I have no idea why we cling to the Columbus discovery narrative so strongly.
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