Permission that is not permission!

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Easylife
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On the off chance I had caught a farmer leaving a grass field and he gave me permission to detect it. I've covered about half of the 6 acre field so far and it was very clean ground containing quite a lot of coins, but nothing older than George II showed, though there were a few reasonable artefacts. But after my last visit I decided that I didn't really fancy going back there again as I have other more preferable options available.
But even so I thought I would give the farmer a call out of courtesy to let them know what I had found on their land as I said I would, but it turned out that I had made some mistake in taking down their number! :o
So I tried tracking down this mystery farmer by calling a couple of my other local landowners and it soon came to light that he did not actually own the land but was just renting it. So needless to say I shouldn't have been detecting on there without the actual land owners permission. But I was acting in good faith as when I had asked the farmer if it was his field, he had said yes! I do now know who does actually own it but as I am not fussed to go back there again I think it is maybe best to just leave it at that! :silent:
The spin off of this is that it seems to have increased my bond with my current landowners and further opportunities have been offered. :thumbsup: :Party:
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Daz2110
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I have had a similar experience where I asked someone living in a house surrounded by 4 fields for permission to detect. They said yes and I'd been detecting there for a couple of years. It wasn't my most productive permission but it was a few minutes walk from my house so was ideal for a few hours during the summer evenings. Anyway, as I was just coming out of one of the fields onto the road, a dog walker asked if I'd found anything and we got into a conversation about what happens if I find a hoard etc so I explained it all and mentioned 50/50 with the land owner, to which he replied that he's surprised the estate that own the land agreed to split it! I said well that's what we agreed verbally and nodded towards the house. He then said, who agreed that, the Tennant's? And pointed to the house. I then explained that the guy in the house said it was fine to go on 'his land' (were his own words).

Huh the cheeky sod, said the guy. All this land belongs to ***** estate. If you haven't got their permission and they see you you'll be in big trouble!

I was mortified that I accidentally trespassed. After a phone call to the farmer he admitted he rents and I then said thanks for allowing me but I won't be returning as we both would get into trouble. Lesson learnt, I always ask now if they're the landowner or a Tennant.
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Easylife
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I guess that many tenants are quite innocently well meaning without actually understanding their legalities? :Thinking:
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Ladybird66
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Hard lesson indeed. One I learned from the horses (Ass ! ) mouth. To quote, “No and I’ve told ALL my Farmers the same”
Ha big headed snob if you ask me. Felt like I was being lumped in with all the riff raff. Feeble retaliation and got put down even further. Went on my way with tail between my legs but that soon changed when the claws came out :evil:

Just cause he inherited thousands of acres ! Miserable bugger ! Has brought home the importance of asking if who you are talking to is owner or tennant because the out look of each can be very different.
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shaggybfc
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That's tough. I've had a similar situation on a permission, but slightly different.
I was granted permission to detect several fields by the farmer. He kindly marked them on the map for me, confirmed he was the landowner, and we signed the search agreement. Happy days. I'd Been searching these fields for over 12 months in between crops etc. Then one day a chap in a 4x4 pulls onto the field and drives towards me. I though it was my farmer so stopped to have a chat. Turns out it wasn't him, it was Mr Angry from Purley himself... he wasn't happy that I was on 'his' land. I explained that I'd got written permission, showed him the map, to make sure I was in the right place. It turned out he rented the land off my farmer. I was polite and apologised profusely and started to walk off the field (cussing under my breath). As I reached the gate, he drove up behind me, tooted and beckoned me over. He apologised to me, he'd spoken to the landowner and confirmed it was all good. He said he'd had people 'trying it on' before and was fed up with it..... probably explained the lack of great finds.

So my advise is, to also find out if the landowner leases out their fields :thumbsup:
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Daz2110
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shaggybfc wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:55 am That's tough. I've had a similar situation on a permission, but slightly different.
I was granted permission to detect several fields by the farmer. He kindly marked them on the map for me, confirmed he was the landowner, and we signed the search agreement. Happy days. I'd Been searching these fields for over 12 months in between crops etc. Then one day a chap in a 4x4 pulls onto the field and drives towards me. I though it was my farmer so stopped to have a chat. Turns out it wasn't him, it was Mr Angry from Purley himself... he wasn't happy that I was on 'his' land. I explained that I'd got written permission, showed him the map, to make sure I was in the right place. It turned out he rented the land off my farmer. I was polite and apologised profusely and started to walk off the field (cussing under my breath). As I reached the gate, he drove up behind me, tooted and beckoned me over. He apologised to me, he'd spoken to the landowner and confirmed it was all good. He said he'd had people 'trying it on' before and was fed up with it..... probably explained the lack of great finds.

So my advise is, to also find out if the landowner leases out their fields :thumbsup:
At least he apologised. You can understand why he acted the way he did. There are many hawkers out there. Some of my landowners do rent the land out and even though the landowner has given me permission, I always ask them to check that their Tennant is fine with it too
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Oxgirl
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I’ve had a tenant farmer from adjacent land (same land owner) come storming over demanding to know who gave me permission. I don’t mind at all, it’s good to know they are protecting the land. And I’ve used the opportunity, switched the charm on high and hoped I can sweet talk him into getting on his leased land too, cause if they say yes the land owner has already already given permission, but only subject to the tenant farmer saying yes too. Not worked yet but some nuts need a blow torch, and I can be patient sometimes :D

The moral if the stories above though is make sure you ask the right questions - who owns the land and is it leased? Never assume as many tenant farmers think the land is ‘theirs’.
Yes I really don’t like Roman coins, I’m not joking
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the-roman
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Easily done and been in that situation just last year. took a friend onto a fairly decent Roman field which I thought the new farmer had just bought alongside the other fields. I made a point of asking if the field in question was his and he replied yes. we must have got confused somewhere down the line though as the actual owner came over and was non too pleased. I really did apologise and even offered all the Roman coins to him, but he was not happy, didn't want the coins so we left it at that. he did say someone has already got his permission to search his field but I have never seen anyone on it since and I have another Roman site a couple of fields over. :thumbsup:
hammeredsi
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oh ye if you have detected for enough years you will have had that unpleasant scenario. I was detecting with my dad (god bless him, dead now) we had 3 hammereds, a fibula and a piece of a flintlock pistol. We knew we were very close to a DMV. Charging over the land was a certain Sir who is father in law to the Hollywood film producer Guy Ritchie and I haven't heard more expletives in all my years working as a working man with working men. I apologised unreservedly as I thought I had permission because the real nice old farmer had given me permission. Not for the first time this apologetic attitude gave me the rest of the day to detect and then never to come back. ( it works). After talking to the nice old tenant farmer and telling him what happened he told me to take no notice. Of course we know once we know who is the landowner if you don't have his permission you can not go detect but he made me laugh. He told me that this certain Sir collected bird eggs (yes illegal of course) but he had spotted an owl nesting in an oak tree in previous years ( by where we found the hammereds). He told the old tenant to grab a ladder and meet him at the old oak tree, pronto, quickly. They met up and the Sir told the surf to get up the ladder and "look" at the nest but my hero the tenant told the Sir he was too old to go up such a ladder up an oak tree to "look" at an owl nest and forced the Sir to go "look" himself if he so really needed to. As the Sir climbed to the top of the ladder my hero shouted to him " hey, that's not going to look so good in the papers tomorrow" "what? what?" the Sir asked..."Tenant kills Landlord" my hero replied. I still laugh about his ability to not be intimidated by wealth and power and don't forget the man who rules over his livelihood. hats off. That's why I think some tenants give permission when they know they should not.
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Easylife
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hammeredsi wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:27 pm I still laugh about his ability to not be intimidated by wealth and power and don't forget the man who rules over his livelihood. hats off. That's why I think some tenants give permission when they know they should not.
He sounds like a man of my same morals, an interesting perspective. :thumbsup:
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hammeredsi
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ye I think that was a special moment detecting brought to my life
hammeredsi
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Ladybird once I went to a permission my mate got (he doesn't detect now) and the young landowner was like …….thanks for coming , keep what you've found. I'm so glad you could enjoy these acres like I do as I have recently inherited them. Now that's a refreshing change.
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