Cool livery button for ID.

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Easylife
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I found this livery button last time out which just has a little bit of silvering left on it. It seems quite an interesting one to figure out. Even though it's in pretty good shape it was only when I zoomed in on a pic of it that I finally figured out the Latin motto “FAX MENTIS INCENDIUM GLORIAE” meaning 'The flame of glory is the torch of the mind'. On the left is a unicorn, and I assume three unicorn heads on the left half of the crest. On the right is a dragon or wyvern, and three of it's footprints on the right side of the crest. It shows an Earl's coronet, that's as far as I got so far, found in Notts. The back mark is: 'Reynolds & Co, 50 St Martins Lane, London' – so that dates it 1871-73.
Any help in figuring out the family or families name is appreciated. :thumbsup:
P1080480.JPG
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Pete E
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No idea on the ID but I do like that....

I found a "chromed" "livery" button the other day with a Liver bird on it..Did a bit of searching and it turned out to from Liverpool Airport Police! :rollinglaughing: :rollinglaughing: :rollinglaughing:
slippery
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Think it's Forbes (Earl of Granard) and the house of Rawdon.
:thumbsup:
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DiOz
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slippery wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:34 am Think it's Forbes (Earl of Granard) and the house of Rawdon.
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
The button would have been on the uniform of one of the servant's of the 6th Earl of Granard, George Forbes, and his wife Selina Frances, the daughter of John Rawdon, the 1st Earl of Moira. The button has marital Arms on it, with the husband's being on the left half of the shield, and his wife's father's Arms on the right half.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fo ... of_Granard
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Easylife
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slippery wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:34 am Think it's Forbes (Earl of Granard) and the house of Rawdon.
:thumbsup:
What a great first post Slippery, a great match, right area but likely descendents if the dating of the button is correct? :Thinking:
Hello and welcome! :thumbsup:
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Easylife
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DiOz wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:21 am :thumbsup:
The button would have been on the uniform of one of the servant's of the 6th Earl of Granard, George Forbes, and his wife Selina Frances, the daughter of John Rawdon, the 1st Earl of Moira. The button has marital Arms on it, with the husband's being on the left half of the shield, and his wife's father's Arms on the right half.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fo ... of_Granard
Thanks DiOz, spot on with the match. :thumbsup: I just have a conflict of dates as he button seems to have been made in about 1872 just before the death of their only surviving child in the following year aged 82? There doesn't seem to be any record of him marrying so guess he could have commissioned it, but not so sure?
Though in 1837 the 7th Earl Granard (grandson of 6th Earl) succeeded as the 2nd Baron Granard of Castle Donnington, which is about 20 miles away from the find spot, which fits, but would they have used this very same coat of arms 2 generations later?

http://www.thepeerage.com/p6149.htm#i61483
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fo ... of_Granard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Granard

Their may be slight conflict of the buttons date but only within about 10 years each way it seems.
Reynolds.png
Any thoughts welcome. :thumbsup:
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Blackadder43
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Love the skills you people have with ID's
Nice one Slippery and Di0z :thumbsup:
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Steve_JT
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Nice to find livery buttons, always interesting to research, also get a good idea of its age when it’s discovered what house it belongs to

Well saved and ID’d :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Still after the rarest livery button, that would be from one of the servants from the house of figgis
That’s if they were afforded uniforms....lol

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A foolish faith in authority, is the worst enemy of truth." Albert Einstein
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Oxgirl
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slippery wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:34 am Think it's Forbes (Earl of Granard) and the house of Rawdon.
:thumbsup:
Great ID slippery :thumbsup: and nice to get some extra info from Dioz too. Livery buttons are undervalued finds in my view but are such important local finds.
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DiOz
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Easylife wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:00 pm Thanks DiOz, spot on with the match. :thumbsup: I just have a conflict of dates as he button seems to have been made in about 1872 just before the death of their only surviving child in the following year aged 82? There doesn't seem to be any record of him marrying so guess he could have commissioned it, but not so sure?
Though in 1837 the 7th Earl Granard (grandson of 6th Earl) succeeded as the 2nd Baron Granard of Castle Donnington, which is about 20 miles away from the find spot, which fits, but would they have used this very same coat of arms 2 generations later?

http://www.thepeerage.com/p6149.htm#i61483
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fo ... of_Granard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Granard

Their may be slight conflict of the buttons date but only within about 10 years each way it seems.
Reynolds.png

Any thoughts welcome. :thumbsup:
I wouldn't expect those Arms to be used in that form after the Earl died, as impaled Arms were supposed to be changed to quartered Arms when inherited,
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Pete E
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Re the conflict of dates, is it possible the button was made in two stages? I am wondering if "blank" buttons (including the detail on the back) were made and held in stock, and then finished at a later date when they received a commission/sale?
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Easylife
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It's cast in one piece. I guess it's possible that a surviving child (82 year old) could have commissioned it, though I'm doubtful. :Thinking:
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