NCMD statement regarding IoD (14/08/2020

TheNCMD
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NCMD STATEMENT REGARDING I o D (14/08/2020)


Responsible detecting is an essential cornerstone of the values of the NCMD, and any initiatives to support responsible practices will be backed by the NCMD.

However, the Association of Detectorists’ (AoD) proposed training goes beyond responsible detecting into a certified training programme to archaeological standards.

We consider that there is a very strong risk that this certification will be exploited to control our hobby by being incorporated into future farming payment schemes. That will mean landowners will only be able to permit access to those detectorists holding such accreditation or risk losing farm payments. Whilst this may not be the AoD’s intention, this will mean you will only be able to detect farmland if you are certified. The expense of the training and annual memberships to stay certified will not be cheap.

It is not difficult to see that the next step will then be to add another layer of training and limit the number of people who can be trained.

It is basically licensing of our hobby by the back door.

The NCMD will not be involved in this initiative as we will then be viewed as endorsing it. We do not agree with this training programme for the reasons stated above and urge our members not to be involved.
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TerraBritannia
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Please do keep us informed on this subject.
TerraBritannia [previously known as TerraEnglandia] but Andy is my real name.
https://www.youtube.com/TerraBritannia
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alloverover
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Yep, the IoD is not a good thing for detecting or detectorists, the founder is on a bit of a superiority trip ( ive seen his posts on other forums), trying to invent an organization that has never been needed and still isnt, it will certainly be part of the old divide and conquer routine against the normal detectorist in the future, indeed, his posts ive read have been pretty disparaging to anyone who dosent agree with him :roll:
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Allectus
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alloverover wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:33 pm Yep, the IoD is not a good thing for detecting or detectorists, the founder is on a bit of a superiority trip ( ive seen his posts on other forums), trying to invent an organization that has never been needed and still isnt, it will certainly be part of the old divide and conquer routine against the normal detectorist in the future, indeed, his posts ive read have been pretty disparaging to anyone who dosent agree with him :roll:
Yep. Seen this clown/s in action too....it's definitely not good! :thumbdown: Nip the shister/s in the bud I say! :thumbsup:
Blackadder43
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Keep it civil please or it will get removed.
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Allectus
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Blackadder43 wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:56 pm Keep it civil please or it will get removed.
Yep. Too strong there on my part mister B. Post edited. :thumbsup:
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DaveP
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The one piece I don't understand:
The Association of Detectorists that aims to become the IoD is working hard to gain momentum and has already got a national level grant. They are not going to go away anytime soon.
The NCMD, "The recognised voice of metal detecting" appears, and I repeat "appears", to be saying we will not engage with the AoD/IoD.

That looks to be handing all the control to the AoD and if so, we should not be surprised if something comes along that we don't agree with or like.
What am I missing?
TheNCMD
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It's fair to say you're probably right in respect that the funding body will not be going away quietly.

The AoD however have repeatedly refused to answer very basic questions regarding this project and have recently come under crushing criticism from the hobby grass roots. it's blindingly obvious that hobbyists don't want it, but as stated above we wait for round 2

The NCMD have issued a clear statement of intention on the matter
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Saffron
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I heard a talk from the IOD (currently downgraded to AOD), last year. A lot I liked, notably responsible detecting and working with archaeologists. BUT even then there were "undertones" and I had a very strong feeling that there were "other objectives", that made this very different to what the vast majority of detectorists wanted and made me uneasy.

I feel that the NCMD took their eye off the ball and missed out in the past and should have started some of this kind of initiative themselves, such as getting some form of qualification for detectorists working on organised archaeological digs. If they had done this they could then have have control over how this developed. However, we now appear to have another organisation that is getting the funding and working with organisations like English Heritage so could potentially soon be in a position to be much more acitive in how metal detecting moves forward with the NCMD being sidelined, despite the AOD (IOD) representing very few detectorists while the NCMD represents a high percentage.

Evan
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DaveP
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TheNCMD wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:20 pm It's fair to say you're probably right in respect that the funding body will not be going away quietly.

The AoD however have repeatedly refused to answer very basic questions regarding this project and have recently come under crushing criticism from the hobby grass roots. it's blindingly obvious that hobbyists don't want it, but as stated above we wait for round 2

The NCMD have issued a clear statement of intention on the matter
Not the funding body - The AoD or IoD will not be going away. They/it have significant support and a person who is driven to succeed; whatever success looks like.

"crushing criticism" is a point of view and shows no signs of being effective. The hobbyists may not want it but without engaging early or actively lobbying against it, we will get what we are given.

To my original question, "what am I missing?" - the answer appears to be "nothing". The AoD have the ball and are in control.
Steve RC
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I would doubt that. Why is the person who is the lead man on the project slugging it out placing misinformation and half truths on Facebook and detecting forums whilst the other stakeholders sit quietly on the sidelines ?

I find it very unprofessional way to go about making friends and influencing people. There is a lot of detail that is missing and one wonders how the grant of taxpayers money is going to be used and what is the intents after it ends.

On the one hand the lead man is criticising the NCMD on another detecting forum and perhaps elsewhere whilst at the same time extending invites to the NCMD to join the project. Something does not add up.
MudMax MD
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Dear NCMD

What questions have gone unanswered please?

I don't think it's right to plant something negative and then state that you may be completely wrong ("Whilst this may not be the AoD’s intention") and then continue your assumption and paint a convenient fictitious future in a bad light? Scaremongering is not helpful right now.

Assumptions don't do any of us any favours, they just start rumour mills and mud slinging.

As you are our best representatives (I have a lot of respect for NCMD and have been a member since I started detecting) please tell us the following:-

1. What questions have you asked that have gone unanswered?
2. What are you doing to open formal discussion with AoD in order to understand their aims more clearly?
3. Further to point 2, what are you doing to pursue guarantees that this is not leading towards harder restrictions on the hobbyist?

Thank you
TheNCMD
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Thank for your questions

1) The NCMD's line of questioning has to be private between ourselves and Keith Westcott, suffice to say, key questions have consistently been left unanswered.

2) The NCMD has sufficient details from the Project Design document to satisfy itself as to the I o D's broad aims.

3) Pursuing guarantees, will depend very much on Keith Westcott's responses to various detailed concerns and observations that have officially been raised with him very recently.
MudMax MD
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Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, very grateful.
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Littleboot
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i am sure I am not alone ....especially given the current situation globally :roll: .....in being heartily sick of people displaying their megalomaniac tendencies and wanting to control. It is everywhere. I detect to get away from that kind of cobblers and political shenanigans.
In my experience...bitter , yet educational, as it was....involved in football politics I know that one must always follow the money where politics and power is concerned. It is always always always going to involve lies and corruption if money is in the equation.
It seems to me that if I follow the money trail I get to a place where someone has seen the potential of paid digs and is keen to take it and exploit it to the next level. Think of a license/authorisation by this outfit as akin to a...vaccine. :lol: In other words something to hold you to ransom with. Create the problem/need then supply the solution is a business model as old as the dawn of time.
Now hopefully the detecting community will unite and not cave in. Remember the current ahem pandemic and how it is playing out. If detectorists don't stay vigilant they will find themselves in a similar situation and, metaphorically , muzzled, side-lined, bullied, and lied to. All for their own good, of course. :roll: :lol:
Live long and prosper.
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