Rule of six??!!

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Littleboot
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Why?
From what I have gathered club digs are being limited to six people.
Yet there are plenty of exemptions for outdoor pursuits of similar ilk.
Grouse shooting springs forcibly to mind and so does paintballing, football etc.
Why is it deemed safe for 30 blokes to be in a field shooting or splatting one another or kicking a bag of wind....but somehow any more than six metal detectorists constitutes a risk.
If anything detecting is less of a risk than many exempted pursuits as it is, by necessity conducted socially distanced. Whereas football is actually a contact sport.
Like much of this stuff it makes no logical sense...but I feel is indicative of a group of people and how they like to control those around them. in other words...some sporting bodies are more keen on rules and regs than on batting for their members.
The Countryside Alliance got themselves an exemption . (chortle chortle....a bit like how nannies were the first priority to be allowed into homes ...)
Recreational sports, including five-a-side football, cricket, rugby and parkruns, can go ahead as long as they follow protocols. To qualify, the sports must be 'organised by a club, business or charity and/or involve someone with a licence to use equipment relevant to the sport.' But teams of more than six can't go for a post-match pint together.
I tend to think...given my age and having witnessed the whole range of antics by the bent charlatans (aka MPs) on every point of the swingometer....that the exemption was made entirely to suit the hunting lot and the grouse shooting (a lot of them have investment in the season don't-you-know)....and any other ancillary permissions were granted as camouflage. :roll: Hence the nonsense about licensed equipment. Why should it matter if equipment is licensed or not...unless it is a gun, of course. Does one licence a hockey stick, football, etc etc?
I do think the detecting bodies are once more trying to show themselves 'worthy' in some way. It will never ever work. Not in a country where shooting birds is considered more worthy than simply detecting and harming nothing. (well, maybe the odd worm comes a cropper but I always try my best to avoid them. :lol: )
As with everything...follow the money.
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Pete E
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Littleboot wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:57 am Why?
From what I have gathered club digs are being limited to six people.
Yet there are plenty of exemptions for outdoor pursuits of similar ilk.
Grouse shooting springs forcibly to mind and so does paintballing, football etc.
Why is it deemed safe for 30 blokes to be in a field shooting or splatting one another or kicking a bag of wind....but somehow any more than six metal detectorists constitutes a risk.
If anything detecting is less of a risk than many exempted pursuits as it is, by necessity conducted socially distanced. Whereas football is actually a contact sport.
Like much of this stuff it makes no logical sense...but I feel is indicative of a group of people and how they like to control those around them. in other words...some sporting bodies are more keen on rules and regs than on batting for their members.
The Countryside Alliance got themselves an exemption . (chortle chortle....a bit like how nannies were the first priority to be allowed into homes ...) I tend to think...given my age and having witnessed the whole range of antics by the bent charlatans (aka MPs) on every point of the swingometer....that the exemption was made entirely to suit the hunting lot and the grouse shooting (a lot of them have investment in the season don't-you-know)....and any other ancillary permissions were granted as camouflage. :roll: Hence the nonsense about licensed equipment. Why should it matter if equipment is licensed or not...unless it is a gun, of course. Does one licence a hockey stick, football, etc etc?
I do think the detecting bodies are once more trying to show themselves 'worthy' in some way. It will never ever work. Not in a country where shooting birds is considered more worthy than simply detecting and harming nothing. (well, maybe the odd worm comes a cropper but I always try my best to avoid them. :lol: )
As with everything...follow the money.
With much of the Covid Rules, I think the Government is trying to balance implementing restrictions with doing minimal harm to the economy...This has lead to things like shutting pubs and clubs at 10pm instead of a total shutdown.

Country sports represent a substantial income to the rural economy, where as detecting doesn't. Detecting is pretty small fry as far as the Government goes, and is simply not on their radar screen in the same way country sports, football, cycling ect is...

That said, I actually agree with what you are saying about well organised detecting events being safe and have said this from the beginning, and I hope the NCMD are pushing that behind the scenes, as I am sure they are.

As far as I know, we are still restricted to 30 people in Wales (with some additional travel restrictions if in a local lock down area) and that to me seems a far more reasonable compromise.

Regards,

Peter
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A lot of the government rules don’t really make sense but I guess they are made with the right intentions. We might be in full lockdown again soon so no one will be allowed to meet :cry:
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Paint
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There’s already thousands in lock down even myself for a few days as had to take daughter for test today and can’t go out until she gets all clear it’s hard to appreciate how much even a family member having a test can affect things let’s hope the majority play by the rules or as you say we will all be in lock down soon will update when I get results hopefully she’s clear otherwise we are all isolating for much longer :(
Rule of six will only work if we stick together :thumbsup:
Or not
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The Countryside Alliance is a big organisation with a lot of financial boot; however, possibly more significant is that both hunting and shooting generate a significant amount of money - and this is in rural areas where there are limited other activities providing employment and generating money.
(A cycnic might also say they are mainly supported by "rich Conservatives" and its a Conservative government :o ).

It should be noted that "commercial" digs are allowed to continue with no limit on numbers attending, with Covid restrictions in place and people not allowed to merge into groups (eg no all gathering to look at a good find). So this could be compared to the lower league football.

In fairness to the government they have to try to ballance peoples health, while protecting the economy at the same time - which is basically impossible!.

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Our club are abiding by a combination of factors, in no particular order......
The Law.
The Guidance/Advice.
The Landowners wishes.
The members wishes.
The local council.(Static Event)
The Police (static event)

If someone can tell me how the virus can differentiate between the two scenarios below I would be most grateful.

1. A local club organise a day out for their members under stringent covid-secure guidance. Everyone knows each other as they are all members, the club knows where they live and there are 20 - 30 folk on 90 acres. Mitigation is in place as is track & trace.


2. A "dig business" organise a day out for anyone, from anywhere as long as you write a phone number on the envelope the cash is in. 100 folk on 80 acres.

Which one is higher risk??

Most of the commercial digs don`t even check NCMD/FID cards least of all where someone has travelled from!

Ironically the national representative body supports the latter yet "advises" the former that it should only be 6.
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By way of a PS - we operate close to the Nottinghamshire/Leicestershire border and, in light of the new tier system, will not be organising any events whilst all of Nottinghamshire remains in Tier 2 as well as Leicester City, Oadby & Wigston.
Charnwood Borough (the borderland council!) is in Tier 1 but it would be irresponsible to bring folk into the area from higher tier zones. :thumbsup:

Not everyone will think the same way....................
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Oxgirl
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jcmaloney wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:49 am

Ironically the national representative body supports the latter yet "advises" the former that it should only be 6.
Completely and totally incorrect. The NCMD merely puts out the legal situation to all parties. It certainly does not support rallies.
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jcmaloney
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Oxgirl wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:07 pm Completely and totally incorrect. The NCMD merely puts out the legal situation to all parties. It certainly does not support rallies.
Neither does it condemn the commercialisation of our collective history. That big stick that will be used to beat us all with soon enough.

The NCMD could easily support the "Rule of Six" for all its members.
They could happily say "As your National representative body do not go digging in groups larger than six"
Then there would be far fewer customers for said commercial operations.
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Oxgirl
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jcmaloney wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:40 pm Neither does it condemn the commercialisation of our collective history. That big stick that will be used to beat us all with soon enough.

The NCMD could easily support the "Rule of Six" for all its members.
They could happily say "As your National representative body do not go digging in groups larger than six"
Then there would be far fewer customers for said commercial operations.
OMG the NCMD supports the law and has tried to encourage all dig organisers, whether clubs, charities or commercial to stick to the law.

The law clearly states groups of 6 for everyone.

It’s just that the government (not the NCMD) has decided that charities and businesses can have multiple groups of 6. If you don’t like that talk to DCMS because if you think commercial rally organisers will listen to the NCMD then I think you are crediting them with more powers than they have.

However, saying all that and as you know John, they’ve highlighted the law and encouraged compliance to individual dig organisers who have ignored this. The bending of the law to get round the rules, or the interpretation of them for personal agendas has been disappointing :thumbdown:
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jcmaloney
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Oxgirl wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:11 pm OMG the NCMD supports the law and has tried to encourage all dig organisers, whether clubs, charities or commercial to stick to the law.

The law clearly states groups of 6 for everyone.

It’s just that the government (not the NCMD) has decided that charities and businesses can have multiple groups of 6. If you don’t like that talk to DCMS because if you think commercial rally organisers will listen to the NCMD then I think you are crediting them with more powers than they have.

However, saying all that and as you know John, they’ve highlighted the law and encouraged compliance to individual dig organisers who have ignored this. The bending of the law to get round the rules, or the interpretation of them for personal agendas has been disappointing :thumbdown:

As a National "representative body" (not an NGO) they could advise their members not to attend events larger than 6. Simple as that. As highlighted above.

They would be seen to be equitable and fair to their regions, clubs and members and the "hidden bonus" would be fewer punters for said cash groups and commercial operators.

:thumbsup:
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jcmaloney wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:49 am Our club are abiding by a combination of factors, in no particular order......
The Law.
The Guidance/Advice.
The Landowners wishes.
The members wishes.
The local council.(Static Event)
The Police (static event)

If someone can tell me how the virus can differentiate between the two scenarios below I would be most grateful.

1. A local club organise a day out for their members under stringent covid-secure guidance. Everyone knows each other as they are all members, the club knows where they live and there are 20 - 30 folk on 90 acres. Mitigation is in place as is track & trace.


2. A "dig business" organise a day out for anyone, from anywhere as long as you write a phone number on the envelope the cash is in. 100 folk on 80 acres.

Which one is higher risk??

Most of the commercial digs don`t even check NCMD/FID cards least of all where someone has travelled from!

Ironically the national representative body supports the latter yet "advises" the former that it should only be 6.
Good post. :thumbsup:
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It's the "business" aspect.. That's why the rules are different. Government has to be seen to be supporting business.
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Littleboot
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We are being constantly lied to by the media, folks. Played big time. Sins by omission and misrepresenting people and gotcha questioning. censorship of learned opinions. People cannot make an informed choice if they have not been informed.
"The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe, for the axe was clever and convinced the trees that because his handle was made of wood he was one of them."
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Littleboot wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:36 pm We are being constantly lied to by the media, folks. Played big time. Sins by omission and misrepresenting people and gotcha questioning. censorship of learned opinions. People cannot make an informed choice if they have not been informed.
I stopped watching the news long ago as I didn't favour the distraction techniques from the real issues. From what little I see now seems so pathetic and completely illogical, so only really makes sense to misguide from the main aim. Just switch it off and have a nice life. :thumbsup:
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